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1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBDV-YJP
John Williams Head M 24 Manchester [Acrobat]
Caroline Williams Wife F 24 Manchester [Acrobat]
Edward Williams Son M 7 Manchester
Alfred Williams Son M 3 Manchester
James H Williams Son M 1 Bradford

Using http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
in particular
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ and http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1863 WILLIAMS Edward T Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library HARROP DEA/61/87
1865 WILLIAMS Mary E Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library HARROP DEA/65/85
1868 WILLIAMS John A Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library HARROP DEA/70/15
1869 WILLIAMS John H Horton Bradford HORT/83/43

Births Dec 1863 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Edward Thomas Manchester 8d 164

Births Dec 1865 (>99%)
Williams Mary Emma Manchester 8d 173

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
WILLIAMS John Alfred Manchester 8d 194

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1863 [q3]
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WILLIAMS John HARROP Caroline Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church) Archives+, Manchester Central Library CATH/145/123
John s/o Edward m 12/7/1863 Caroline d/o Thomas
If you have a sub, a search at:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2967
should get you the m.cert. When you do, check the witness names on adjacent pages to spot "profwssional winesses" - likely mates or rellies of the parish clerk.


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Now a technical note - there are two John A's b 1868

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1868
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS John A Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library HARROP DEA/70/15
WILLIAMS John A Saint George Archives+, Manchester Central Library STG/105/22

and in the GRO index:

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
WILLIAMS John Alfred Manchester 8d 194

Births Dec 1868 (>99%)
Williams John Arthur Manchester 8d 242

so how do I know which is which?
Well, I look at thr local records of the other names on the same GRO page.
Each page will be full of records that were registered within 10 entries of John A, i.e., within 2 local pages of John A.

Here's just one of thosee names with the local refs appended

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
BATE Elizabeth Manchester 8d 194 DEA/70/15
WILLIAMS John Alfred Manchester 8d 194 DEA/70/15

Births Dec 1868 (>99%)
BUCKLEY Hamond Manchester 8d 242 STG/105/22
Williams John Arthur Manchester 8d 242 STG/105/22

Most local refs have 3 elements:
1) a code identifying the subdistrict (or church for marrs)
2) a sequence number within that series of registers
3) a page or entry number

Merr refs nearly always use entry # (so one knows who wed whom).
Most rego's have 500 entries (some registrar's own marr rego's have 200 entries).
Local marr rego's (both the original in the church and the copy in the local district office) had 2 entries per page.
Local birth & death rego's had 5 entries per page.
At the end of each quarter a copy of the last quarters events recorded in the local rego's was made fof the GRO.
In earlier days, these copies for the GRO had twice as many entries per page.


A similar matching determines Mary E is Mary Emma

===============
Now the absence of Mary Emma in 18871 is troublesome
The 3 most likely reasons are:
1) she's somewhere else - like with a relly, maybe grandparents
2) I've wrongly included her as a child of this couple - we would need to find another couple living in Deansgate, likr:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1864[q1]
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WILLIAMS John HARROP Sarah Manchester, St. John Archives+, Manchester Central Library STJ/25/492
s/o James m 12/3/1864 to d/o William
With a sub, one can get the m.cert, this time via:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2962

Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ we see:

St James, George St, Manchester, M1 4DZ
St James is located at OS Grid Reference - SJ 842980
Founded: 1788 Closed: 1928

If I go to http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ and look up George Street, it takes me to an URL and embedded in the URL is x=384143&y=398064& and 384143,398064& are the old style OS coords of the arrow point.
These translate to the Landranger style coords of SJ 84143 98064 which is 57 m W and 64 m N of the rounded off Church location of SJ 842 980 (with 100 m precision).

Anyway, the main point is that George St runs along the back of the Art Gallery, and is abt 300m ENE of the library, which in turn is 400m E of Deansgate, so it's quite possible this couple lived in the Deansgate subdistrict.

3) the third possibility (and the one I favour) is that Mary died.

These look possible:
Deaths Sep 1865 (>99%)
Williams Mary Manchester 8d 146

Deaths Dec 1866 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Mary E 1 Manchester 8d 262

Deaths Dec 1867 (>99%)
Williams Mary 1 Manchester 8d 286

Deaths Jun 1868 (>99%)
Williams Mary 2 Bradford, Yk. 9b 112

However, we can discount the first 3:
Lancashire Death indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Age or Year of Birth Sub-District Registers At Reference
1865q3 WILLIAMS Mary 61 Deansgate Archives+, Manchester Central Library DEA/58/191
1866q4 WILLIAMS Mary Elizabeth 1 Newton Archives+, Manchester Central Library NEW/20/147
1867q4 WILLIAMS Mary 1 Cheetham Archives+, Manchester Central Library CHE/20/152

Note the latter two did not die in Deansgate subdistict, and although the first did, this local index gives her age at death as 61, which excludes her too.

There were no suitable deaths in Holburn, but Bradford had:
Deaths Jun 1868 (>99%)
Williams Mary 2 Bradford, Yk. 9b 112

and also:
Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
Williams John Herbert Bradford, Yk. 9b 171

Yorkshire Death indexes for the years: 1868
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMS Mary - Horton Bradford HORT/54/6

and
Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS John H Horton Bradford HORT/83/43

which seems fairly strong, but circumstantial, confirmatory evidence.

However, when I was checking the matching, I noticed an odd thing.
It looks like John had a twin:

Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
WILLIAMS Frederick William Bradford, Yk. 9b 171

Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WILLIAMS Frederick W Horton Bradford HORT/83/43

So now the problem is whar happened to Fred?

Deaths Dec 1869 (>99%)
Williams John Herbert 0 Bradford, Yk. 9b 88

Yorkshire Death indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
WILLIAMS John H - Horton Bradford HORT/57/66

It looks like John H died, and Fred W got renamed as John H in time for the 1871 census.
I've never seen this before - I've examples in my tree of names of dead kids being recycled, but never a live one being renamed as the dead kid.

Many thanks for all your posts - I'm researching the Cragg Williams acrobatic family for John Williams 1846 granddaughter. It has been a fascinating if frustrating at times journey so far.

Madeleine Buckley :-)

Hi Margee,

That's a fair piece of family history. Patricia should be well pleased with that.

Ian

1871 Census:


Name:Mary Johnson
Age:42
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1829
Relation:Wife
Gender:Female
Where born:France
Civil Parish:Kenwyn
Ecclesiastical parish:St John
County/Island:Cornwall
Country:England
Registration District:Truro
Sub-registration District:Kenwyn
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Household Schedule Number:53
Piece:2283
Folio:46
Page Number:9
Household Members:NameAge
Mary Johnson 42
William Johnson 12
Mary A Johnson 11
Edwin Johnson 9
Arthur R Johnson 6
Emily Johnson 4

I wonder if Madras was actualy Malpas,

Malpas is a small riverside village place just south of Truro

Roy

A big thank you to everyone who has helped me find Mary Anne Johnstone. It is much appreciated.
I have to go as it is nearly 11 o'clock here in OZ. Time for bed.
Thanks again for your efforts.

Best Wishes,
Patricia.

Hi Lynne,
Thanks very much for the census info. Probably why I couldn't find her at all I was looking for a birth place of Madras as shown in 1911 census. That put me in the wrong direction. I wonder why that was given as her place of birth.
Patricia.

1881 census, showing Mary A Johnston aged 47 as a widow with 2 children, Edwin aged 17 and Emily aged 13 (this must be Emily who married Edward Cragg)


Name:Mary A. Johnston
Age:47
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1834
Relationship to Head:Head
Gender:Female
Where born:Truro, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish:Kenwyn
County/Island:Cornwall
Country:England
Street Address:Charles St
Marital Status:Windower (Widower)
Education:
Employment status: View Image
Occupation:Nurse
Registration District:Truro
Sub-registration District:Kenwyn
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Neighbors:View others on page
Piece:2312
Folio:47
Page Number:11
Household Members: NameAge
Mary A. Johnston 47
Edwin Johnston 17
Emily Johnston 13 born Truro

Hi Marie,
Thanks for that. His father was interviewed at some stage and had said about Cremorne's name. He must have been born overseas as I cannot find his birth on Free BDM.
Patricia.

I've done a worldwide search for Cremorne and nothing else turned up, other than he was also listed separately in 1896 on the return from USA - with his wife Lilly aged 18.

He was mentioned in a New Zealand newspaper
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=OW19020219.2.227.4

I don't think that means he was in NZ, seems to be a theatrical column and they mention his naming.

Hello Margee,
yes they are mentioned in the Palace of Variety.
Patricia.

Hi Marie,
I didn't know he was married. Thanks for that. Cannot find him on census either unless they were away every time the census was taken.
Thanks.
Patricia.

Patricia - re my notes on the bottom of the 1890 record above, in 1895 a 23 year old Cremorn appears to be in the troupe with a 17 year old wife called Lilly.

Marie,
You mentioned Cremorn. He is hard to find also. Apparently he was named after the racehourse Cremorne . He won the English Derby I think.
Thanks for the info on the passenger lists.
Patricia.

This looks like Edward travelling to the USA, with wife Emily aged 22 - travelling as Tourists with John M Cragg aged 44, Amanda Cragg aged 24, wife and several other Cragg's:


Name:Edward Cragg
Arrival Date:7 Jul 1890
Birth Date:abt 1864
Age:26
Gender:Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality:English
Place of Origin:England
Port of Departure:Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival:New York, New York
Ship Name:Servia

Does this relate to your family?

http://www.palaceofvariety.co.uk/page12.htm

I think this was them arriving USA, no Mary Johnson with them:

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Edward Cragg
Name: Edward Cragg
Arrival Date: 7 Jul 1890
Birth Date: abt 1864
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Servia

No occupations for the men, just "tourist"

In the party were:

John W (or M) 44
Amanda 24 wife
Edward 26
Emily 22 wife
Alfred 22
James 20
Cremorn 18 (No idea what the name should be but it's male)
Victoria 10
Arthur 8
Alfred 1½

EDIT: There's a very similar list for 1895 where they are listed as acrobats and there are also actresses and comedians, probably the whole troupe.

No, wrong pairing ... Edward Craig married Sarah England

Thanks Marie for that passenger list.
Patricia.

I don't think that's the right marriage. That Emily married James Henry Warrington:

Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: Emily Johnson
Birth Year: abt 1867
Age: 20
Marriage Date: 12 Nov 1887
Parish: Hulme, St Stephen
Parish as it Appears: St Stephen, Hulme
Father's Name: Joseph Johnson
Spouse's Name: James Henry Warrington
Spouse's Father's Name: James Warrington
Reference Number: M320/6/2/2
Item Number: 4
Archive Roll: 816