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Not thank you Flip - so the baby was named George Henry in the workhouse, BUT registered as Harry. The name George linked possibly to a GEORGE and Elizabeth Coates (living in the same street), as mentioned by my friend's dad's cousin. This cousin is the one supplying this information.

When we looked into a George and Elizabeth in Middlesbrough in the census/marriage, we found the info posted earlier in the 1901/1911 census, which is the same area where the baby's mother was living at the SAME time as a child, and when the baby was born in the 1920s.

So, did the mother leave a clue with the baby being born George Henry? Or is that coincidence?

And the photo ... no idea it was intended for. I am just putting an assumption out there now due to the name and the fact no one knows who he is from his face.

What do you think from this?

But was that birth name change a clue - or are you on the wrong track? And the photo, "from loving brother George" - who was that intended for, do you know who it was addressed to?

Just putting obstacles/thinking points in your way, I've no answers to this either!

Thank you Flip, I certainly have considered this. Of course, we will never know, but then that makes me think, how certain are we of any facts, even when recorded officially. The information is only as accurate as the informant is able OR willing to make.

Likewise, the information posted here is from a cousin of m friend's dad, as the father in question never mentioned any of this.

However, strangely, the baby was originally named George Henry, and then the name changed completely. So that was a clue ... and then, my friend has a photo of an unidentified man, in military costume with the words 'From your loving brother George'. Perhaps?!

Who knows?

It could be, as you have obviously already suspected, George did not die in WW2, it was just the story adopted by the mother or adoptive parents.

He may have been a total fabrication by the mother, to "save face" so to speak, and may never have existed - but I'm sure you will have considered this.

Thank you Flip, I'll have a think!

Peter

Ancestry has no more information on those cwgc deaths you have suggested for G Coates and G C Coates - and as no full name or age is given I don't know how you could find out more about them, sorry.

Thank you Flip, and thank you.

Frustratingly, there are these marriages:

Marriages Dec 1938 (>99%)
Coates George E Sowerby Middlesbro' 9d 1323 Scan available - click to view

Marriages Jun 1939 (>99%)
Coates George E McCarthy Middlesbro' 9d 1383 Scan available - click to viewAdditional information available - click on Info button
Coates George E Mason Middlesbro' 9d 1383 Scan available - click to viewAdditional information available - click on Info button
Marriages Jun 1944 (>99%)

The one in 1939 is for a marriage to a woman named Monica, and she seems to be a widow/divorcee.

Peter

Assuming Kucinta has the right birth - which looks likely - it rules out any later deaths where dob is given, he could be born Q4/1902-Q1/1903. Also assuming his death was registered correctly as George E with the right age, I think it just leaves 3 possibles:

Reg Durham Western Sept 1955 1a552
Reg York June 1957 2d689 (probate states George Edward, widow Monica Ellen)
Reg Hull Dec 1967 2a294

But none during the war - at least not in England/Wales or on the military records to match this guy.

So if this George Edward Coates died in WW2, I think we might have found him as the grandfather of my friend.

Obviously, it would appear that no documents would show this but this does seem to prove the family legend at least.

These COULD be deaths for George - anyway of confirming further?

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2931955/COATES,%20G%20C

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1155418/COATES,%20G

Any opinions?

This looks like a possibility for the birth of George born c1903 - named after his father?

Name: George Edward Coates
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1903
Registration District: Middlesbrough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 570

However I'm not finding an obvious death.

Flip, the answer to your question is no - all I have is really what I have included here.

Sorry I can't be more help - can you suggest anything more?

If you can, would you look up a death for the son George born c. 1903? I did look on the CWGC but could find nothing so perhaps he didn't die in the war?!

Peter

Here's the probate record summary:

Elizabeth Coates
Probate Date: 20 Apr 1939
Death Date: 20 Mar 1939
Death Place: Middlesbrough, England
Registry: London, England

Could Alfred be their son, or then again totally unconnected? Have you looked for a marriage for Alfred - or then again traced the address from before 1926 onwards?

Thank you Flip - and yeah, I agree, the age is too far out. Also, the register office confirmed it wasn't her. What is the date of the probate that you have already? Again Gresham Road is the correct area.

And I personally haven't seen the ERs but in 1930 a ALFRED and AGNES COATES 'replaced' George and Elizabeth ...

Peter

Did you check the ERs for years surrounding 1926 - see if any other family members appeared once they were eligible to vote?

I don't think the death you are suggesting for Elizabeth in 1939 is correct - the age is too far out. Also, there is a probate record showing she was a widow, of 90 Gresham Rd, probate granted to William Henry Coates and Robert Coates, both fitters - so possibly her sons?

Thank you Reggie, I do understand you point about the father living in one place in 1926 not having a bearing to his locality in 1911. However, I have not said anything definite about who the father is, so more exploring the possibility for the time being to help my friend out. This being the fact my friend's grandfather wa a George COATES living in a specific street in Middlesbrough in the 1920s. So from an electoral register, showing a George and Elizabeth living there, I wanted to explore a POSSIBLE marriage in 1907 of a couple bearing those names in that town.

Also, my subscription to ancestry has just expired hence these recent posts. So yes, certainly have considered the subscription lol.

And the reason for the other thread was as no one made it obvious that the 1911 census hadn't been searched for the marriage I put up here.

Thank you for your efforts.

Thank you so much Kutcinta!

I think you might be onto something here - for example, the addresses shown are the same streets were my friend's family were living at the time and into the 1910s/1920s. Also, I found a death for George Edward COATES and Elizabeth COATES in Middlesbrough in 1936 aged 67 and 1939 aged 72 respectively!

So that fits with your work ... thank you. Might I ask for a look up for a death of the son George who was born in 1903 ... I think we might on to something ...

Thank you for this!

This is probably a complete red herring, as they say they have been married 17 yrs, but people sometimes fibbed to save face , and sometimes took a while to get round to marrying.

George is George E in in the 1901 census:

Census 1911:

Address: 31 Derwent Street MiddlesbroughCounty: Yorkshire (North riding)

COATES, George Head Married M 42 1869 Steam Crane Driver Yorks Middlesbrough
COATES, Elizabeth Wife Married 17 years F 35 1876 Yorks Leeds
COATES, Fred Son Single M 15 1896 Grocer's Assistant Yorks Middlesbrough
COATES, Arthur Son M 12 1899 School News Boy Yorks Middlesbrough
COATES, Alfred Son M 10 1901 School Yorks Middlesbrough
COATES, George Son M 8 1903 Yorks Middlesbrough


Census 1901:

Address: 63, Argyle Street, MiddlesbroughCounty: Yorkshire (North riding)

COATES, George E Head Married M 30 1871 Steam Crane Driver
Middlesbro, Yorkshire
COATES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 27 1874 Thornton, Yorkshire
COATES, Fred Son Single M 5 1896 Middlesbro, Yorkshire
COATES, Arthur Son Single M 3 1898 Middlesbro, Yorkshire
COATES, Alfred H Son Single M 0 (4 MOS) 1901 Middlesbro, Yorkshire

This could well be George E's birth, as Stockton covered Middlesborough up until 1875, when the Middlesbrough registration district was created:

Births Jun 1869 COATES George Edward Stockton 10a 78

These are the results for George Coates, married, with Elizabeth Coates in same household

None, as you can see, resident in Middlesbrough...........


Household COATES, George 1862 49 M Willesden Middlesex VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1864 47 M West Ham Essex VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1862 49 M Stafford Staffordshire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1885 26 M Kings Norton Worcestershire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1869 42 M Birkenhead Cheshire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1857 54 M Burnley Lancashire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1852 59 M Knaresborough Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1883 28 M Sculcoates Yorkshire (East riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1869 42 M Middlesbrough Yorkshire (North riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1884 27 M Auckland Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1845 66 M Auckland Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1876 35 M Weardale Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1889 22 M Lanchester Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1866 45 M Longtown Cumberland VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George 1853 58 M Pembroke Pembrokeshire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Edward 1875 36 M South Shields Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Edward 1869 42 M Cardiff Glamorganshire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Frederick 1880 31 M Wolstanton Staffordshire VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Henry 1880 31 M Malton Yorkshire (North riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Henry 1883 28 M Reeth Yorkshire (North riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Henry 1874 37 M Teesdale Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Henry 1847 64 M Teesdale Durham VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Marsden 1861 50 M Rotherham Yorkshire (West riding) VIEW VIEW
Household COATES, George Marshall 1862 49 M Scarborough Yorkshire (North riding) VIEW VIEW

Nothing obvious..............and no-one knows when or where either of them was born!

Where the unnamed father was living in 1926 does not necessarily have any bearing on where his relations were in 1911, or where they were born

Try a 14-day free trial of one of the sites

I have Reggie - thank you!

So, can someone please look up this couple in the 1911 census and post it here please?

George and Elizabeth Coates?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1907 (>99%)
COATES George Edward Middlesbro' 9d 876 Scan available - click to view
TAYLOR Elizabeth Middlesbro' 9d 876 Scan available - click to view