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the census for 1881 for soshe thomas and 1891 census for soale thomas are both for thomas sosbe.the 1891 has edith ramsey niece,the 1901 census has edith ramsey as niece and thomas sosbe spelt correctly.

ancestry.com free bmd marriage index.name thomas james sosbe.
date of registration jan-feb-mar 1872.
registration district westminster.
inferred county london
volume number 1a
page number 751.
i have a print out of this entry,but i have just searched for it again,does not come up now.
thomas sosbe was married to elizabeth collings between his release from prison 1872 [ 1871 census he is a unmarried convict aged 39 ]and her death 07/09/1877.
elizabeth did not marry thomas james.
the only proof i have is thomas james birth cert and elizabeth'death cert.all other is from census and other computor info.but with a surname like mine it would seem unlikely to be another thomas sosbe jeweller in england.if he was a bachelor on susan brown marriage info why was his name on the birth cert of thomas james and on the death cert of elizabeth?

Burial
First name(s): Elizabeth
Last name: SOSBE
Date of burial 13 Sep 1877
Age at death: 26
Calculated year of birth: 1851
Place of burial Ingatestone
Dedication: St Edmund & St Mary
County: Essex
Ingatestone St Edmund & St Mary:
Denomination: Anglican
Coverage 1558 - 1951

Chris :)

1881
SOSHE, Thomas Head Married M 48 1833 Watchmaker
St Lukes, Middlesex
SOSHE, Susan Wife Married F 40 1841
St Lukes, Middlesex
Piece: 187
Folio: 52
Page: 36
Registration District: Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Municipal Borough:
Address: 43, Warren St, St Pancras
County: London, Middlesex

1891
SOALE, Thomas Head Married M 57 1834 Watch Repairer
Spitalfield, London
SOALE, Susan Wife Married F 53 1838
Downham, Cambridgeshire
RAMSAY, Edith Niece F 12 1879
Kensington, London
Piece: 117
Folio: 130
Page: 11
Registration District: Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Municipal Borough: St Pancras
Address: 48, Cumberland Market, St Pancras, London
County: London

1861 ?
JOSBIE, Thomas Lodger Unmarried M 28 1833 Watch Maker & Jeweller
Finsbury, Middlesex
Piece: 97
Folio: 75
Page: 46
Registration District: Pancras
Civil Parish: Pancras
Municipal Borough:
Address: 53, Augustus Street, Pancras
County: London

You state the the marriage to Susan Brown was the man's third - yet he claims to be a bachelor

Do you have any documentary proof of the statements you have made - other than the 1854 birth/baptism?

Hi Peter

I have searched on Ancestry and i am not seeing a a marriage entry for a Thomas James Sosbe and Elizabeth Collings in 1872.

Can you c&p the record for us please.

These are the results for the vol/page number you have quoted

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
Bean Mary Ann Marylebone 1a 751
Brackenbury Hubert Marylebone 1a 751
Bradford Edward Marylebone 1a 751
SHORT Dorothy Sophia Marylebone 1a 751

So it's no wonder that the GRO couldn't find anything using the info you provided

Did you think to look at the IMAGE? It pays to do so...................

751 is not a correct page number for the district/year/qtr

You say the info was on Ancestry...........please post the actual transcription - not just your version

It certainly isn't on freebmd or FMP

the marriage on ancestry.com was for thomas james sosbe . date of reg jan-feb-mar 1872.reg district westminster,london.volume 1a page number 751. i gave this info to g.r.o. but they could not trace.no trace either on bmd site or marriage of elizabeth collings.

Hello Peter - could you clarify who that 1872 marriage was for? That doesn't seem to be a valid combination of volume and page numbers for the year and district but it's possible it could have been mistranscribed.

If you can confirm the name then we can check elsewhere and try to verify the details.

thomas sosbe born 1830 1st marriage emma middleton,untraced. 2nd marriage to elizabeth collings,untraced.details from elizabeths death cert ,died aged 26 of diabetes at fryering essex 07/09/1877. thomas shown as a jeweller.3rd marriage to susan brown 01/05/1878.thomas died 1911,susan1923.thomas convicted of simple larceny.18/11/1867 sentenced to 5 years,served in brixton. thomas james sosbe born 01/04/1854. i found a marriage on ancestry.com details are jan-feb-mar 1872 westminster london vol 1a page 751 .but g.r.o could not trace.thomas james married sarah ann chilton 22/02/1886.i have details of their children.

Can't find it on London marriages Rose, but I think this is the page she's missing from (I think 5711 is really 574 on image)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1862
Baggs William Westminster 1a 574
Broadbent Thomas Westminster 1a 574
Hazel Catherine Westminster 1a 574

This is the only one I can see for 1862....

Emma Middleton (also Emma Rose Middleton)
Spouse Name: James Atkins
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 14 Dec 1862
Parish: Poplar All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Register

will see if anything else

Can't find him in 1861 yet, but think this is him in 1871:

1871 England Census

Name: Thos Sosbe
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Convict (Prisoner)
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Clapham Park
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration District: Lambeth
Sub-registration District: Brixton

ED, institution, or vessel: Brixton Convict Prison
Household Schedule Number: 1
Piece: 691
Folio: 45
Page Number: 5

Occupation given as watchmaker.

Perhaps someone with access to London records would check this marriage please, if only to eliminate .The groom is missing but as it is the right area I thought it might just be worth looking at?

Marriages Jun 1862 (>99%)
Middleton Emma Westminster 1a 5711

Have we got Thomas Sosbe in 1861 census, with or without his son?

(In 1871 Thomas senior is in Brixton prison)

Not seeing a marriage for Thomas and Emma, so likely they didn't marry

Thomas claims to be a bachelor on his later marriage:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Thomas Sosbe - Watchmaker, bachelor
Spouse Name: Susan Brown - spinster
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 May 1878
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Thomas Sosbe (deceased) - type founder
Spouse Father: Joseph Brown (deceased) - farmer
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: S Simpson, J Roffey?

Given that the child's birth in 1854 was registered St James' I'm wondering about this 1851 - the girl would be old enough in 1854 to have a child

MIDDLETON, Ann Head Widow F 55 1796 Monthly Nurse Stoke Damerel, Devonshire
MIDDLETON, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 15 1836 Needlewoman London, Middlesex

Piece: 1485 Folio: 322 Page: 73
Registration District: Saint James Westminster
Civil Parish: Saint James Westminster

Address: 12, Heddon Court, Saint James Westminster County: Middlesex

thanks for info.jas sosbey was the brother of thomas sosbe born 1830 and married to harriet porter.thomas/harriet son also thomas was married to emma middleton.thier son thomas james sosbe born01/04/1854.i have copy of cert.i only have emma's details from birth cert.looking for birth/marriage/death.james went to australia, name then spelt sosbey,as it is today in australia.on 1841 census james and caroline surname wrongly down as wilcox.ive no trace on caroline after 1851 census.

(PM received also!)

Chris :)

Further pms:

"address on birth cert 57 poland street golden square st james westminster.mother emma sosbe formerly middleton. father thomas sosbe,watch hand maker.registered 09/05/1854"

and

"thomas/harriets son born 1830 was the parents to thomas,married to emma and father to thomas born 1854.thomas must have been family christian name,at least four in succession.james sosbe and james porter witnesses at marriage were brothers of bride and groom. "

Well, I'm pleased that's cleared up but the first message said that the Thomas who fathered Thomas James Sosbe in 1854 was married to Harriet Porter - that's obviously incorrect as she was his mother.

Peter, at the bottom of this thread is a box headed "Add your reply" - please type your messages in there and then press submit. Please don't click on our names to send private messages. :-)

Sorry for being really slow- is Emma Middleton married to another Thomas Sosbe when she gives birth to her son Thomas Sosbe?
Otherwise he would be Thomas Middleton?