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Connected thread:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1335837

I've figured it now.
The problem was my ancestors kept having children until they literally couldn't anymore. Therefore there was various Arthurs and Williams born around the same time periods.
Thankfully, I've bought a full subscription now, so it's all become clear. Be nice if I could somehow find some pictures of these relatives, but I'm failing to find any!

EmilyJade - I'm sure Lillie was registered as Lillie but they may have decided Lilian sounded nicer.

I found them on ancestry as I have worldwide but there are a lot of records you can find about them on FamilySearch https://familysearch.org

I guess if you're researching Thums it's how Arthur fits in that you need to research?

They may be relations of Peter Kirby, Arthur's mother married him in 1875.

That explains why I've not been able to find the family in the 1901/1911 census.

I have tried looking for John and Annie Kirby as children but haven't found them together in a census yet,


Chris

Oh wow! This is great news! Thank you so much :O
I had no idea we had family over there... even distantly!
So her name was Lillian, not Lillie I take it?
Can I also ask how you found these records?

Sorry Marieceleste I got it wrong

The reason AnnieThums nee Kirby was staying with her brother in 1891 was because her husband Arthur had gone ahead to the USA - she later joined him as we can see from the US 1910:

1910 United States Federal Census

Name: Arthur Thums
Age in 1910: 43
Birth Year: abt 1867
Birthplace: England
Home in 1910: Sidney, Delaware, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1891 <<<<<
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Annie Thums
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England

Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Thums 43
Annie Thums 43
Arthur E Thums 24
Lillian Thums 22
Burt Thums 16
Ernest A Thums 14

You can see the elder 2 children are those from the 1891. They are shown as born England. The younger 2 born New York.

Just takes a bit of logical deduction (and a worldwide sub).

EDIT: Have added note re: children's birthplaces.

Perhaps if I find a death date for Arthur, this could confirm he died while the children were still young.
Annie could have remarried, and the children's name be changed?

Kempina.... I'm afraid I don't follow?

If Annie KIRBY married Arthur THUMS in 1884 but is staying with her brother JOHN Kirby in 1891 then why wouldn't she be recorded as her brother's sister?

I don't know who her actual parents are
I thought they were William T Thums & Ann - her maiden name is proving hard to find, has been for a while!
William was born in 1831 and Ann in 1833

this is why I asked for Annies parents

I think it's quite clear that Arthur and Lily are the children of Ann Thums nee Kirby but have incorrectly been listed as son & daughter to the householder.

Possible Annie Thums nee Kirby remarried/cohabited and the children recorded under new name in later census..

NO BUT Chissie posted THIS

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
......................................................................Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
Bark Samuel Basford 7b 200
COOPER Mary Basford 7b 200
......................................................>>>>KIRBY Annie Basford 7b 200
....................................................>>>>Thums Arthur Basford 7b 200


Now this COULD be this " sister" marrying her "brother"

Dont believe ALL you read
Only thing I was looking for is why 1884 for the marriage and 1891 still says sister but brick walls are never easy

I searched Annie Thums in the census, which brought her name up
I then got her confused with another Annie, also in the family with a similar birth date

Both of their births are registered as Thums though....

In your opening post you say whilst researching Annie Thums, how did you get to Annie.

Chris

The two children don't appear on any census records with the surname Thums...

It's okay, I've sorted that problem out.

It's just the surnames now...

Who are you talking about? which father coz this man IF hes the father to arthur and lily they are 5 and 3

I dont think hes Annies father ..


when and where was annie born?

who are their parents