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I think Ann did it to help the person who posted this thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1339746

I had also put a link to this thread on that one....

Ann, are you nudging this up just on the off chance or is there some additional information to be added?

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

An update. The death cert for the Hammersmith Albert Stafford has arrived. He was married to a PF Stafford, and so unless my Albert divorced Elizabeth it seems unlikely this is my man. I shall order the 1974 Ealing certificate for Albert Stafford, although as Gins points out the DoB doesn't look right. Cheers Jane

He was born before 9th June (which is registered on the 1974 death, posted above)

Baptism Date:25 Apr 1900

So unless the informant at the time of the 1974 death got his DOB wrong, it's not your Albert

Thx Jax, I really appreciate you finding these details. Hannah Hadfield and Fred Stafford have come up on other searches, it seems likely that this is Albert's family. cheers Jane

Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
about Fred Stafford




Name:
Fred Stafford
Birth Year:
abt 1872
Age:
21
Marriage Date:
13 May 1893
Parish:
Chadderton, St Matthew
Parish as it Appears:
St Matthew Chadderton
Father's Name:
Joseph Stafford
Spouse's Name:
Hannah Hadfield
Spouse's Father's Name:
John Hadfield
Reference Number:
L153
Item Number:
6
Archive Roll:
625

Thanks Reggie.

I shall obtain the marriage cert as you suggest. I have not yet discounted the 1974 record, but understood my grandfather died sometime during the war. If the Hammersmith record turns up a blank - I shall be intrigued to see where the 1974 record leads.

regards
Jane

For cross-referencing with marriage cert info..............when copy is obtained

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference

STAFFORD Albert Oldham Below Town Oldham HADFIELD OBT/226/207
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1893 (>99%)

Hadfield Hannah Oldham 8d 823
Stafford Fred Oldham 8d 823


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1911 census


Person: STAFFORD, Albert Address: 20 Clarkwell St Oldham

STAFFORD, Fred Head Married M 38 1873 Roller Stretche Textile Oldham VIEW
STAFFORD, Hannah Wife Married17 years F 40 1871 Oldham VIEW
STAFFORD, Thomas Son Single M 17 1894 Roughter Out Textile Oldham VIEW
STAFFORD, Albert Son Single M 11 1900 Oldham VIEW
STAFFORD, Fred Son Single M 5 1906 Oldham

You NEED a copy of the marriage cert.................

Bear in mind that the man may not actually have died when the children were placed in care - he could have walked out on his family

I note that you have apparently not seen the 1974 death info I posted............which matches the possible birth of your grandfather.

I put it forward as a suggestion ONLY, of course...........

I copy.......................

Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
STAFFORD Albert Oldham 8d 608


Death?????????????

Name: STAFFORD, Albert
Registration district: Ealing
County: London
Year of registration: 1974
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Date of Birth:9 June 1900
Volume no: 5B
Page no: 149

freebmd does not have any other birth to match the death

Birthplace should be recorded on death cert

Thanks Gins

I have requested the death cert. for Hammersmith before reading your latest post and since then you have found an Albert Stafford living in London, which is not my grandfather.

I shall wait and see. Still, the Hammersmith cert remains the best fit.

cheersJane

No problem

A marriage certificate in Eng/Wales will give the you the bride and groom name/ages, address, date and place of marriage and occupations

It should also give the fathers names and occupations and the two witnesses names

I use Ancestry for research, which is where I got the above details



Here is a free site for BMDs although it's not fully transcribed as yet


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Added

I would guess that the Hammersmith death posted earlier is this man, maybe rule him out too


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Albert & Agnes Stafford

Year:1930

County or Borough:Hammersmith and Fulham

Ward or Division/Constituency:Hammersmith
Street address:97c Mansfield77


Same couple, most likely

Name: Albert Stafford
Spouse: Agnes Mchardy
Marriage: Sep 1927 - Kensington, Middlesex
Other: QMar-Jul-Aug-Sep 1927


And his birth


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name:Albert Stafford

Record Type:Baptism

Baptism Date:17 Dec 1899

Father's Name:William Francis Stafford

Mother's name:Alice Stafford

Parish or Poor Law Union:Bethnal Green St Andrew

Borough:Tower Hamlets

Register Type:Parish Registers



There are births registered for the children of Albert & Elizabeth right up to Dec 1936 all in Oldham, so they are both alive at that time.

You can rule out any deaths for them before this date

Gins you are amazing - are you looking at the Genes Reunited site or somewhere else for these details?

I note an error in my last message. I meant to refer to Albert and Elizabeth marriage certificate, as opposed to their birth certificate.

As you may tell I am new to this site.

Cheers
jane
-

Hi Jane

You can rule out one of those deaths as here is his baptism date



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name:Albert Stafford

Baptism Date:25 Apr 1900

Baptism Place:Oldham S Mary's, Oldham, England

Father: Fred Stafford

Mother: Hannah Stafford

FHL Film Number:1656225

Reference ID:373


Birth certificates in Eng/Wales have the date and place of birth along with parents names and mothers maiden name

What is on a death certificate depends on when he died, later ones give the DOB. All death certs should have the date, place and cause of death and the person who registered it


And would this be his wifes baptism



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name:Elizabeth Bright

Gender:Female

Baptism Date:10 May 1899

Baptism Place:
Christ Church, Chadderton, Lancashire, England

Father:James Bright

Mother: Annie

FHL Film Number:1656354

Reference ID:item 7

Thank you for your detailed replies, I am very grateful.

Reggie you asked how do I relate to Albert Stafford and Elizabeth Bright - they are my grandparents. ArgyllGran you noted that there were 7 Srafford/Bright children born in Oldham - one of these is my mother. However, when she was very young, and around WW2 she was placed into care. Hence - we have very little information - apart from her parents names, and the name of some of her siblings. We do have a photo of Albert Stafford in uniform. Like ArgllGran I had looked at CWGC site and found no reference to Albert Stafford.

You have asked me whether I had eliminated the records you have found. I am not resident in the UK, and am unfamiliar with your birth, death, marriage certificates. If I obtain Albert & Elizabeth's birth certificate (I am reasonably confident I have that detail correct) would it provide me their birth dates and place of birth? Similarly - if I obtained copies of the death certificate would I also find out the birth date and place of birth? Is this how you go about eliminating persons from the record - from the little information that I have to hand?

Thoughts?

kind regards
Jane

This looks like the 1898 Birth + family on 1901:


1901 census transcription details for: 14, St Peter Street, Oldham
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 3805
Folio: 122
Page: 14
Reg. District: Oldham
Sub District: Oldham Below Town
Parish: Oldham
Enum. District: 11
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 14, St Peter Street, Oldham
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
BRIGHT, James Head Married M 24 1877 Carter Contractor
Stockport
BRIGHT, Annie Wife Married F 25 1876
Oldham, Lancashire
BRIGHT, Elizabeth Daughter F 2 1899
Chadderton, Lancashire


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1898
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BRIGHT Elizabeth Chadderton Oldham WHITTY CHAD/77/277


???
Marriages Dec 1894 (>99%)
Bright James Oldham 8d 854 Scan available - click to view
Elliott Margaret Oldham 8d 854 Scan available - click to view
Johnson Samuel Oldham 8d 854 Scan available - click to view
Whitty Annie Oldham 8d 854 Scan available - click to view


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1894
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BRIGHT James WHITTY Annie Chadderton, Christ Church Oldham CE203/3/175

Dea x

How do you relate to these people?

Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Bright Elizabeth Hannah Oldham 8d 713

I wonder if the following may actually be the birth.................there is NO second forename suggested on the marriage record

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
Bright Elizabeth Oldham 8d 697

CWGC does not list Albert as having died while in the forces.