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Kerry, I've sent you a private message, with details of the 1952 birth along with 2 marriages which could tie in. If you want to follow up on this, we strongly suggest you get a copy of the birth certificate first, to confirm whether or not she is in fact related to your late father. You can order a copy online from here for £9.25

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

If she is related, I've already given you the marriage info to follow up on. The first husband is easily found, but the marriage was short lived.

Thank you for your kind help today!
So I have just been chatting with my mum on this, apparently when my "grandparents" went to court to adopt my dad at this point his birth parents Kathleen and Joseph objected to the adoption. He said there was an older brother who stood up in court and said he's happy there, let him stay where he is happy. It was my dad's belief that there were at least 4 older siblings although he could not remember their names. Presumably if they were in a position to try and challenge the adoption surely they must be registered on an Electoral register somewhere in 1961 unlike in 1951 at his birth where their registered address was 1 luxborough street or "luxborough lodge" as I have today discovered it was renamed as a hospital for poor elderly and infirm.

Thank you flip I will look at this now.

Hi Kerry, do you know where the adoption took place? it's just the ERs are only searchable by address, unless indexed for a few areas on sites like ancestry - which is where Jonesey found the ones posted earlier. We can't find a Kathleen & Joseph Faulkner together on the ERs in London.

I'm afraid I find the adoption story hard to believe, maybe some mixed up memories - from what I believe adoption hearings are closed to all but the parents. I also believe that if the birth parent objects to an adoption it cannot go ahead - I was adopted in the 1950s and my mother had to sign the consent forms BEFORE it went to court.

In the late 1960s I personally know a father (named on BC) who would not consent to adoption of his daughter, and it could not go ahead, although the prospective parents tried to contest it.

I have a photocopy of the adoption certificate dated 9th feb 1961, at dartford county court. His adopted parents were from hextable in kent.

I understand what you are saying about mixed memories, I'm sure as a child he would not have been subjected to the politics but perhaps told stories later on. From memory we understand that he first went to his adopted parents around 3-5 years and yet wasn't actually adopted until 10, is this a usual time span for adoption process? Or could this have been because his parents would not sign the consent forms initially?

His birth certificate states his fathers occupation as a builders labourer.

I have requested the birth certificate for Margaret the 1952 birth, but I am curious to know if she was born after him, presumably she was not taken into care also if the marriage linked to her she still had the names Faulkner and schofield. Seems a very weird coincidence if she is not related though.

There is a marriage for Margaret C in Camberwell for dec quarter 1970 and its a double entry one in surname Faulkner and one in surname Schofield

I will PM details

Roy

Is it possible that the 2nd Kathleen Faulkner jonesey found on the ER for paddington with a Joseph Faulkner at a different address could be a possibility, if luxborough Lodge had means to accommodate the poor or young new mothers that perhaps she was housed here temporarily?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks again for the help!

Kerry,

It is now a case of being patient until you receive the birth certificate to see whether or not she is related to your late father.

If she is then I suspect that she may have been taken into care at some stage. Unlike your father however who it appears was at first fostered then later adopted she may at some stage have been returned to one or both of her parents.

Please let us know the outcome when the certificate arrives.

Thank you, yes patience is the tricky bit at this stage!! I will be sure to keep you updated on its arrival.

Thanks again
Kerry

Fingers crossed for you Kerry, it's the only possible lead we've come up with.

If your father was right and had older siblings including a brother they don't appear to have been registered as Faulkner with mmn Schofield. From 1930 to 1950 there were only 2 boys with this name combination born, one died in infancy, the other Gordon was born in 1933 in Leeds, so unlikely.

Look forward to your update when the certificate arrives :-)

Still patiently waiting for birth certificate of possible sister, ordered last weekend and hoped it would have arrived by today, anyone know what the general delivery time is?

Meantime, trying my hardest to find a birth death or marriage for my fathers parents as named on his birth certificate but can't find ANYTHING for them, it's like they don't exist, any thoughts anyone??

Thanks :-)

When I've ordered in the past they have usually taken about a week, so just a little more patience needed I'm afraid.

Like you, I can't find anything about either of his parents - I did follow up on a Joseph Faulkner living in Paddington just before the war (with his parents & brother), but it turned out to be a dead end as he died in the war in 1942.

We have no idea of their ages or where from, but their names are not coming up - at least not their full names. The only Kathleen F I can find married a Harvey Francis Marriott in 1930, then re-married in 1962. But she was born in 1910, full initials Kathleen M F Schofield (but married as K F M).

Hopefully when the birth certificate arrives, if it is another of their children, there may be some other info we can follow up on.

Let us know when it arrives, we'll see what can be found :-)

Thank you Flip, yes hopefully if a match then a new address may be a better lead, also I'm wondering the middle name of cossian is really usual so perhaps mistranscribed on my dad's birth cert and should be something else.

I will update once certificate is received!

Just to clarify a point.......................
Parents are permitted to oppose the making of an Adoption Order and to be heard.
If they do so, the adoption agency requests the Judge to find that the parents are
unreasonably withholding their permission. The Judge has to find this before an
Adoption Order is granted.
The parents are permitted to be at the Adoption hearing and to present their objections to the Court. If this happens, the prospective adopters are in another room. The parties do not meet.
Peter

P.S.
I forgot to say Kerry, I hope your search is fruitful!
Peter

Thank you Peter, that is useful to know. Would adopters be advised of a case history/background? I'm just wondering with regards to the reference of older siblings would that be a possible memory if they were in care together for a few years or hearsay passed to him by adopted parents in which case may not be true.

There is a tree on Ancestry for Harvey Francis Marriott and Kathleen Marion Frances Schofield - her birth name- but seems to be Kathleen Frances Marion
Schofield. They married in Hampstead Sep Q 1930.

not any details on Kathleen but there is a child born 1930 [ no details but male]

is it David J W Marriott mth Schofield Dec Q 1930 Southwark ??

is he the older brother ?? cant find details on him.

this Kathleen could still have had children 1950's aged 39y/40y

Mavis

Life was very different under the old Adoption Laws. In the 1950's, adoption was almost a secret affair. The adopters were expected to raise the Child as if he/she had been born to them and were not expected to say otherwise. As your Dad was not a baby when he was adopted, it is highly likely he was made aware of siblings. There was not a laid down hard and fast rule.

The 1950'a were still in the days when birth parents could demand their child back from foster parents, they were usually successful. If the birth parents had never contacted their child for years, this would be a case to be put before the Courts to dismiss any opposition to the granting of an Adoption Order. This would protect the well being of the Child and allow him to remain with the only parents he had known.

Peter

Thank you Mavis, that sounds promising! I am still waiting for the birth certificate for the potential sister - this waiting is like torture! Hopefully this may shed some light, would be great if she included this additional middle name. I have tried to look up ER Kathleen Marion Francis Marriot and for Harvey Francis Marriot but no luck. No death for her with the surname Marriot Faulkner or Schofield that I can see or even anything on the ER, but perhaps I am not looking in the right places!
Hopefully birth certificate will match and show a new address to work from!

Thank you peter for your information too.

Actually Kerry, Harvey Francis & Kathleen Frances Marriott were on the ERs 1936 & 1937 at 15A Sunderland Terrace Paddington. But I can't see them together after this, or before actually:

Kathleen Frances Marriott
Year:1937
County or Borough: Westminster
Ward or Division/Constituency: Paddington
Street address:15a SUNDERLAND TR

She may still be a contender, as she has dropped the other name on the ERs.