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Chris :-)

Even I find all this a bit strange area-wise. They are listed as Llanelly Breconshire and I had to Google to check it out because the only Llanelli I knew was in West Wales!

Only one of my grandparents was Welsh. Two were English and one Scottish. And then my Welsh grandfather's mother was English (that's the Marchants)

But none of them did me any favours with their names....

The Scots are Irvine and Pattie - a bit like Smith and Jones

The English are Marchant, Hyde, Cording, Cox and Homer - not quite Smith and Jones but there are a lot of each of them in the areas that they came from.

And my Welsh Llewellyn. But if I go back one more generation...Evans - doh?!!

Back to this tangle - I wonder if Benjamin and Henry Watkins were brothers?

Jude

More complications, what a lot they are!.

At least you can find your Parish Records now, instead of me staring at screen without a clue on areas, lol, mind you, it's a learning curve!.

Chris :)

edits (don't forget your Llewellyns, think you'll be quite busy!)

Well this is a tangled web :-)

There are two likely baptisms for Mary Anne Watkins - both at Abergavenny St Mary

One in July 1825 child of Benjamin/Hannah and one in July 1827 daughter of Henry/Elizabeth

George Wells married Mary Ann Michael in 1847. She is a widow and her father's name was Henry Watkins a mason.

Mary Ann Watkins married John Michael in 1844. Father Henry a mason. John Michael appears to have died in 1845

Mary Ann Watkins married Thomas Hadlan (mis transcribed as Hadlam) in 1863. Annoyingly I can't find an image on FMP for this to check the father's details. But suspect George was still alive (only death I can find that vaguely fits is in 1864).

Mary Ann Hadlan has to be Mary Ann Wells......more shenanigans!

Caroline Watkins was a witness at both the marriages I can see images for. A Caroline Morgan was the informant of the death of George Wells.....EDIT - Caroline Watkins married John Morgan in 1838 but to dash the whole thing SHE was the daughter of Benjamin AND of course she would then have been Caroline Morgan as witness to both weddings

Births Sep 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HADLAM Mary Watkins Jane Bedwelty 11a 115

1871
HADLAW, Mary Ann Head F 43 1828 Monmouthshire
WELLS, John Henry Son M 22 1849 Monmouthshire
WELLS, Alfred Son M 18 1853 Monmouthshire
WELLS, Joseph Son M 14 1857 Monmouthshire
HADLAW, Mary Jane Daughter F 5 1866 Monmouthshire
WILTSHIRE, Daniel Boarder M 48 1823 Somerset
Piece: 5316
Folio: 93
Page: 18
Registration District: Bedwellty
Civil Parish: Aberystruth
Municipal Borough:
Address: King Street Jo Jones House, Aberystruth
County: Monmouthshire

(does above Birth fit, also below?)


Marriages Mar 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
BURCHELL Enus Bedwelty 11a 110
HADLAM Thomas Bedwelty 11a 110
WATKINS Mary Ann Bedwelty 11a 110
WESTWOOD Margaret Bedwelty 11a 110

1881
A HADLAN, Mary Head Widow F 53 1828
N.K, Oxfordshire
WELLS, Joseph Son Single M 23 1858 Coal Miner
Brynmawr, Brecknockshire, Wales
HADLAN, Mary W Daughter Single F 15 1866
Rhymney, Monmouthshire
Piece: 5308
Folio: 98
Page: 2
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Civil Parish: Gelligaer
Municipal Borough:
Address: Factory Rd, Gelligaer
County: Glamorganshire

Chris :)

(good to see you on FMP!)

"One, Thomas Latchford, I find him only once in 1841 and he dies in 1858. In between he managed to father eight children".

There's not much else to do on a barge!

On a more sensible note - I suppose Ann had family still in Trowbridge, so she could have gone back to visit.

Well...having worked out that I have spent at least £80 on credits in the last six months on FMP...I just subscribed :-)

.1871 census has Henry as son to Mary Ann Hadlan (as subscribed) - this is too much of a coincidence with a witness Thomas (I thought) Hadlaw at the wedding....can anyone find a marriage of Mary Ann - George didn't die until 1864 (I think)

Jude

Notes Henry Wells just happens to be in King Street, Llangattock 1861, lol.

Chris :)

Christine lol!

Yes I was debating which certificates would yield the most benefit :-)

I have loads of boatmen and they are an absolute pain.

One, Thomas Latchford, I find him only once in 1841 and he dies in 1858. In between he managed to father eight children :-)

Jude

I think you need a lie-down in a darkened room dear as this is clearly getting to you!

Have you considered spending your pocket money on this?

Births Mar 1861
MERCHANT Fanny Melksham 5a 105

My Robbins ancestors were Boatmen from Devizes. They carried coal from the Somerset coalfields, tobacco from Bristol and beer from Devizes. They used the Avon & Kennet Canal and berthed at one of three piers in the Southwark area of London.

Toodle pip
Chris

OK....a slight development :-)

I searched trees on here and came up with four hits - and thanks to previous contact I can see three of those trees doh!

However, they are probably the same trees on Ancestry.....anyway, they all have Jane marrying John/Henry Wells on 25 November 1872. And I used my last 20 credits on FMP to download the marriage certificate. The bride is Jane Murcham, father Richard Murcham - miner

But Henry, Jane and the two witnesses Elizabeth Hazel and Thomas Hadlaw (?) were all seemingly illiterate and have given their marks....so wouldn't know that Jane's surname was incorrect. I can't find a Murcham birth to correspond.

So there may be more than a grain of truth in all this.

Thinking on Richard....he could have been a boatman taking coal from Wales to Wiltshire I guess....it still doesn't explain why Ann moved to Llangattock if of course the family in Llangattock in 1871 is the correct family.

That Ann had given birth to a daughter Fanny (according to the trees on Christmas Eve 1860 - so she couldn't be Richard's child) in Trowbridge, was in the Union Workhouse in Trowbridge in 1861 census, and then decamped to Llangattock?

Jude

Chris thanks...I don't know why I couldn't find that. I tried just the surname, the range and Melksham with soundex on :-S

and couldn't see anything

I'd guess that is her

Jude

Births Sep 1844 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Pinchin Female Melksham 8 349

(a possible)

Chris :)

safc/Chris thanks....

Chris - as you note with my thread about Maria Trollop/James Marchant/Selina Slade/Perkins/Marchant...nothing is simple about the Marchants :-)

And they seem to have had a propensity for moving to Wales!

I actually came across Richard Marchant's brother Jonah when looking for James Marchant junior! When I dug a bit I realised that Jonah was in fact a cousin to James Marchant Senior!

Ruth Pinchen was born 1844 (well she was baptised 1844) but I can't find a birth entry for her.

I also find that death report interesting...what was a boatman from Trowbridge doing on a tip in Crickhowell? And if the 1861 and 1871 census are the correct family, why did Ann leave Trowbridge and move to where her husband died (if that indeed was him)?

The problem is, I can't rule out the Breconshire links by finding them in Brecon earlier or finding others in Trowbridge earlier. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Back when I have any (hopefully) feedback from the best sourced tree on Ancestry!!

Jude

(1881 Ruth needed!)

1891
ROGERS, Wm Head Married M 54 1837 Collier
Chilton, Somersetshire
ROGERS, Jane Daughter Single F 34 1857
Victoria, Monmouthshire
MARCHORST, Ruth Boarder Single F 44 1847 Washerwoman
Beaufort
Piece: 4576
Folio: 95
Page: 10
Registration District: Crickhowell
Civil Parish: Llanelly
Municipal Borough: Brecon
Address: King Street, Llanelly, Aberbaidan, Brecon
County: Brecknockshire

1901
MARCHANT, Ruth Head Single F 51 1850 Charwoman
Trowbridge, Wiltshire
Piece: 5174
Folio: 31
Page: 7
Registration District: Crickhowell
Civil Parish: Brynmawr
Municipal Borough:
Address: 4, Swains Square, Brynmawr
County: Brecknockshire

(William Davies and Family at No. 3) (Lovely Handwriting!)

1911
DAVIES, William Head Married21 years M 46 1865 Coal Miner Hewer Llanmouth Blanavon
DAVIES, Sarah Jane Wife Married F 40 1871 Garn Monmouth
DAVIES, Stiphen Son Single M 15 1896 Coal Miner Hewer Brecon Brynmawr
DAVIES, Sarah Jane Daughter F 12 1899 Brecon Brynmawr
DAVIES, Emily Daughter F 10 1901 Brecon Brynmawr
DAVIES, William Son M 5 1906 Brecon Brynmawr
DAVIES, George Son M 3 1908 Brecon Brynmawr
MARCHANT, Ruth Mother Single F 70 1841 Wiltshire (not known crossed through for age)
RG number: RG14
Piece: 33602
Reference: RG14PN33602 RG78PN1935 RD611 SD3 ED10 SN142
Registration District: Crickhowell
Sub District: Llanelly
Enumeration District: 10
Parish: Brynmawr
Address: 4 Well St Brynmawr
County

(1871 William Henry Davies, King Street, Llangattock)


Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
DAVIES William Henry Crickhowell 11b 139
Merchant Sarah Jane Crickhowell 11b 139


Deaths Jun 1911 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Marchant Ruth 61 Crickhowell 11b 85

(not sure if relating here!)

Chris :)

1871 (reference FMP)
MERCHANT, Ann Head F 46 1825 Wiltshire (Laundress)
MERCHANT, Ruth Daughter F 25 1846 Wiltshire
MERCHANT, Jane Daughter F 20 1851 Wiltshire
MERCHANT, Fanney Daughter F 9 1862 Wiltshire
BROWN, William Boarder M 46 1825 Wiltshire
Piece: 5586
Folio: 13
Page: 20
Registration District: Crickhowell
Civil Parish: Llangattock
Municipal Borough:
Address: King Street, Llangattock
County: Brecknockshire

1851 (reference)
MARCHANT, Richard Head Married M 28 1823 Boatman
Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
MARCHANT, Ann Wife Married F 27 1824 Washerwoman
Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
PINCHEN, Ruth Daughter - F 6 1845 -
Semington, Wiltshire, England
MARCHANT, Mary Sister Unmarried F 24 1827 Dress Maker
Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England
MARCHANT, John Nephew - M 3 1848 Dress Makers Son
Semington, Wiltshire, England
Piece: 1840
Folio: 297
Page: 47
Registration District: Melksham
Civil Parish: Trowbridge
Municipal Borough:
Address: Round Stone St, Trowbridge
County: Wiltshire


(1851 interesting, Round Stone Street, John Phillips/Ellenorah from other 'Thread' stay there for some time!)

????

Name: Ruth Merchant
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Relationship to Head of Household: Lodger
Birthplace: Beaufort, Breconshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Crickhowell
Sub-District: 3 Llangattock
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Parish:
Residence County: Brecknockshire

Ah so it can't be my Richard :-) Too old .....

Thanks Chris

It's looking more and more like there might be something in the Brecon connection although Fanny is a worry for me! I wonder about that 1861 census in the Trowbridge Union workhouse .....but there's so much wrong with it! Ann is shown as unmarried....Daughter J could be Jane - age is correct. Then daughter F could be Fanney - age is correct. And then the next entry is the oddest of all - it's a male aged 12 not 2 but he's not entered as a son but as a pauper. So is he actually anything to do with her?

I'll have a play this evening and see what I can find out from theowner of the tree that looks the most reliable

Jude

BRECONSHIRE.
Publication: Hereford Times
Publication date: Saturday 12 March 1859

On Monday last, a poor man, named Richard Merchant, who was "tipper" on one of the cinder tips at these works, was killed by the blocking of two trams. A blow which he received on his head proved to be fatal, as he expired a few minutes after it was inflicted.

Chris :)

County Somerset
Place Bath
Church Weston - All Saints Tr
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 15 Dec 1859
Forename Richard
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname MARCHANT
Age 76

(looks like above)

Chris :)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

Yes Jan I saw that one this morning......

Jude

I would wonder about this death index as Bath is not that far from Trowbridge

Name:
Richard Marchant
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1859
Registration district: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume:5c
Page:487