Find Ancestors

Deaths Mar 1888 (>99%)
BUTTERWORTH James 43 Rochdale 8e 17

The Butterworths aren't your direct line - and you are extremely unlikely ever to know what is, I'm afraid

In that case, Dora was NOT the daughter of James Butterworth - if he had been her father, he would have been named, even if deceased.

1891 census

Person: BUTTERWORTH, Dora Address: 114, Joy Street, Wardleworth, Rochdale

BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Head Widow F 36 1855 Laundress
Shropshire, Dawley Green VIEW
BUTTERWORTH, Emily Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Rochdale, Lancashire VIEW
BUTTERWORTH, Annie Daughter F 8 1883 Scholar
Rochdale, Lancashire VIEW
BUTTERWORTH, Lizzie Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Rochdale, Lancashire VIEW
BUTTERWORTH, Lilly Daughter F 5 1886
Rochdale, Lancashire VIEW
BUTTERWORTH, Dora Daughter F 0 (1M) 1891
Rochdale, Lancashire

Reggie, re your post of the 7thinst. Yes I do have Dora's Birth cert:
13 Mar 1891 Girl , to Sarah Butterworth a Charwoman, 114 Joy St.
No Father listed.
I now have a total of 97 BM orD cert several of which are wrong ones.
In due course I will list the wrong ones in case they are of interest to
anyone else. Should I start a new thread for these?
regards hopephil :-)

Many thanks once again to Mel, Reggie and all who have been of tremendous help to me. Today I receiver three death certs: James Butterworth tuberculosis 1/1/1888, Lillie butterwort tuberculosis 4/12/1901 , sarah butterworth cancer 21/08/1928. Thus ends a 14 year search which was on my doorstep in Rochdale all the time. I shall now order certs for marriage of Sarah and Richard Howarth and Sarah Howarth /James Butterworth and Death of Richard Howarth. All that remains then is James' birth.
Again, many thanks, you have made an old man very happy, for now.




.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

First marriage.


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Richard Howarth
Name: Richard Howarth
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 7 Dec 1873******************
Marriage Place: Madeley, Shropshire, England
Spouse: Sarah Plant
FHL Film Number: 1702083

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference

BUTTERWORTH James HOWARTH Sarah Shaw, Holy Trinity Oldham CE245/1/222


Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
HOWARTH Richard Madeley 6a 1296a
PLANT Sarah Madeley 6a 1296a

Get copy certs - then you will know the FACTS

Do you have Dora's birth cert?

Phil

Feedback should be posted ON HERE, see the box below which has the title 'Add your reply'

Jax have deleted those !!!

Just had another message from Phil when I got back from the dentists, had a tooth out and have three stitches :-(

here's the message.

Hi Mel,
Many thanks for the help so far, I now have death certs for Sarah 1928,
James 1888, and Lillie 1901 but the marriage of James & Sarah will, I feel, evade me for years to come. In the 1881 census they were married and he is the father of the first 4 daughters. In 1872 she would have been 15 years old so they must have married between those two dates, if indeed they did marry !!! But I can find no record of such. One day maybe.
my thanks for all who have offered help so far Phil Ellis

The poster seems to have posted his thanks and asked another question on success stories

Oh well :-S

Edit- Mel the poster marked your post as answered, also you stretched the page by adding all those !!!!

1861 England Census about James Butterworth
Name: James Butterworth
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: 1845
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Butterworth
Mother's name: Sarah Butterworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Castleton
Ecclesiastical parish: Rochdale St Chad
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 71 Drake Street****************

Occupation:SHUTTLE MAKER

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Castleton Within
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Piece: 3037
Folio: 37
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butterworth 45<<<GREEN GROCER
Sarah Butterworth 44
Ellen Butterworth 19
James Butterworth 16<<<<<SHUTTLE MAKER
William Butterworth 14
Sarah Butterworth 11
John Butterworth 9
Alfred Butterworth 5
Ann Butterworth 6
Robert Fletcher 17


1871 England Census about James Butterworth
Name: James Butterworth
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Butterworth
Mother's name: Sarah Butterworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Castleton
Ecclesiastical parish: Rockdale
Town: Rochdale
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Castleton Nearer
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 287
Piece: 4119
Folio: 28
Page Number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
James Butterworth 58 NOW A CLOTHES DEALER
Sarah Butterworth 56
Ellen Butterworth 28
James Butterworth 27******************SHUTTLE MAKER
William Butterworth 24
Sarah Butterworth 21
John Butterworth 19
Ann Butterworth 17
Alfred Butterworth 14

Same address 71 Drake Street.

Why do you think she may have married a Howarth?

Richard Haworth married O/N/D 1873 in Shropshire to Sarah Plant,she would have been 16 if she was born 1857.

Maryb

Phil says that Sarah's parents were Joseph and Eliza Dunning.

The marriage of Venables and Sarah Plant had her father as Benjamin Plant a Gardener on the marriage cert which I have seen so I think we can certainly say that that marriage is definately out.

Why have the pages stretched?? Who altered the box?

1861 England Census about Joseph Plant
Name: Joseph Plant
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Plant
Gender: Male
Where born: Dawley

Civil Parish: Dawley
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Madeley
Sub-registration district: Dawley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 254
Piece: 1855
Folio: 92
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Plant 37
Eliza Plant 35
Betsey Plant 11
George Plant 8
Jane Plant 8
Sarah Plant 4********************************
Joseph Plant 2


1871 England Census about Sarah Plant
Name: Sarah Plant
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Plant
Mother's name: Eliza Plant
Gender: Female
Where born: Dawley, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Lawley
Ecclesiastical parish: Lawley St John
Town: Lawley
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Wellington
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 2807
Folio: 68
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Plant 47
Eliza Plant 45
Elizabeth Plant 22
George Plant 18
Sarah Plant 14***************************
Joseph Plant 12
Adelade Plant 7
William Plant 5
John Plant 2
William Plant 1
Jane Plant 16

I HAV'NT MARKED MY FIRST POST AS ANSWERED!!!

Nor do I Mel, but was concerned by Hopephils's pm to you

"I cannot prove that Sarah married Venables Butterworth"

as it sounded like he still considered it a possibility, though unproven.

Kucinta I don't think venables and Sarah Plant are th e right couple and hav'nt thought that since it was first posted.

Venables' widow Sarah nee Plant born Scotland in 1891 with daur Annie in 1891:

Address: 10, Hannahs Yard, Wardleworth, RochdaleCounty: Lancashire

RIGBY, Elizabeth Head Single F 17 1874 Cotton Weaver
Rochdale
HOWARD, Lizzie Lodger Single F 18 1873 Cotton Weaver
Rochdale
BUTTERWORTH, Sarah Lodger Widow F 30 1861 Cotton Winder
Scotland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BUTTERWORTH, Annie Lodger F 6 1885 Oldham, Lancashire

Sarah Jane Plant born Scotland, who married Venables was still at home with father Benjamin and sister/witness? Maria in census 1881, James and Sarah from Shropshire were already cohabiting and had daur Emily by that time.

Received this from Phil.

Hi Mel,
Sarah Plants parents:Joseph Plant b.1823. d. 1877 .Eliza Dunning
b.1826 d.1882. marr 1848 Shifnell.
I cannot prove that Sarah married Venables Butterworth but in 1873 she may have married a Richard Howarth in Salop who died in 1876.
many thanks Hopephil