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Back to this one again.

John Lunn in the 1861 census was a bit of a conundrum. Had come to the conclusion that he may have been James' son before he married Jane or we were looking at two Jane Lunns with different children. He appears to be younger than stated on the 1861 census.

This is John in 1901. Note the names of the second eldest daughter

Name: John F Lunn
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Mary Jane Lunn
Birth Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Kings Norton
Ecclesiastical parish: Wythall St Mary
Town: Wythall
County/Island: Worcestershire
Household Members:
Name Age
John F Lunn 47
Mary Jane Lunn 43
Mary E Lunn 16
Henriette Ruth Lunn 14
Ada Lilian Lunn 12
Victor Simmins 9 Months

He married Mary Jane Wilkes in 1882 under the name of John Francis R. Lunn.
In 1891 he is calling himself Francis.
I think this firmly attaches him to our Jane.

According to the baptism of his eldest daughter the R in his name is for Richard

Just wondering if anything has come to light regarding gt gt grandfather James Lunn. Still not able to link my Thomas Henry Lunn other than birth and baptism cert. that shows father as James Lunn

Does anyone have any ideas as to where I can look other than census records????
:-S

Hi again, Francis Pollard, father of Jane was a Smith, according to Marr cert. Both James and Jane were 'of full age'

So it could be the correct family if Eleanor was a witness to the marriage.
What does she give for her father's occupation on the marriage certificate?

The baptism date is confusing but maybe there was a reason she decided to be baptised at that time. She could have been ill or thinking about marrying. Any number of reasons could have driven her to turn to the church.

I have just taken a look at messages and my last one to you does not show.

On marr cert for James and Jane in 1851, a witness is Eleanor Elliott.

When Jane Lunn was on 1861 census with Eliz and John her age was given as 39 which would mean that her date of birth would have been 1822, whereas Jane Elliott Pollard had her christening in 1842!!! Further confusion

Found something interesting. When Jane married she names her father as Francis Pollard.

1841

Name: Francis Elliott
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1776
Gender: Male
Where born: Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Cuckfield
Hundred: Buttinghill
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Cuckfield
Sub-registration district: Cuckfield
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1111
Book: 6
Folio: 10
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Elliott 65
Ruth Elliott 54
Ruth Elliott 12
Eleaner Elliott 9
Edward Hills 65

1851 his age is way out but it has been crossed through so it is very difficult to see what it really is. His occupation of Broommaker is the same.

Name: Francis Elliott
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Haugham, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Cuckfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Staplefield Common
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Cuckfield
Sub-registration district: Lindfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 1642
Folio: 173
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Elliott 36
Ruth Pollard 64
Edward Hiles 80

Francis dies in 1854

Deaths Jun 1854 (>99%)
Elliott Francis Cuckfield 2b 77

and in 1861 Ruth is living with a son William born 1818

Name: Ruth Pollard
Age: 73
Estimated birth year: 1788
Relation: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashington, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Bolney
Ecclesiastical parish: Chichester
County/Island: Sussex
Registration district: Cuckfield
Sub-registration district: Cuckfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 4
Piece: 582
Folio: 122
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
William Pollard 43
Ruth Pollard 73
Sarah Tomsett 56

Her possible death

Deaths Dec 1862 (>99%)
POLLARD Ruth Cuckfield 2b 79

There is this marriage which made me think more. He was born around 1820 according to the 1851 census.

Name: Richard Pollard
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 02 Dec 1850
Event Place: Twineham, Twineham, Sussex, England
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
>>>>>>Father's Name: Francis Elliott ????
Spouse's Name: Esther French
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father's Name: Charles French

Jane's middle name of Elliott must have come from somewhere.

It's very complicated especially as there is ever only one of them in the census records at the same time! Both born in the same place at roughly the same time. Makes me wonder if there is just one.

Henrietta would only be 10 in 1861 but Jane may have sent her out into service early and said she was older. Whether or not she took the name of James I don't know it's very difficult to piece them all together.

I keep coming back to it and having a look and another search around but most of the time I seem to be chasing shadows but one day it will all fall into place.

Hi Astra,
I am beginning to wonder if we are looking at two Jane Pollards.

1 Jane Pollard with children Elizabeth and John

2 Jane Elliot Pollard who had 2 daughters, Ruth and Henrietta, both on IGI records with the christening on 29 December 1850

Jane Elliott Pollard was christened Nov 1842 (IGI) St Peter Brighton.

Jane was living with daughters Ruth age 2 and Henrietta age 5mths at Carlton Row on 1851 Census.

(census taken early in the year)

James Lunn and Jane Elliott Pollard were married from 30 Carlton Row July 19, 1851, both of full age and both living at same address. A witness at the marriage was Eleanor Elliott

I can find Henrietta Lunn, age 14 a domestic serv. on 1861 Census. Did she take name of James Lunn when Jane married him in 1851??

I have looked at the original of the 1861census on findmypast and John Lunn is listed as age 11years - scholar, with Elizabeth age 9 so she would have been born in 1852. Jane listed as a widow, so it is unlikely that this Jane Lunn would have been wife of 'my' James Lunn, marr 1851!!

It's complicated!!

I thought he may be 11 months too but the image clearly states 11 with no notations. It could of course be a mistake on the part of the enumerator as he is listed under his younger sister.
There is a death in 1855 for a James Lunn in Brighton which may or may not be the correct one as Jane declares herself a widow in 1861.

I cannot see a birth for John Lunn on free bmd.

I cannot access ancestry census images to check it is as written - just wondered if it was 11 months (but still no birth in Brighton for him.)

If born 1850 he would be very close in age to Henrietta, and surname Pollard.

There are several possible Pollard births.

Having another look at this and have eventually found the family in 1861.
Jane notes herself as Widow so I am not at all sure what has happened to James.
And where has John sprung from? He isn't there in 1851.
Are there two different Lunn families perhaps?

The address is 29 Cannon Place Brighton.

Jane Lunn Head Widow Female 39 1822 Lodging House Keeper Cuckfield, Sussex
Elizth Lunn Daughter - Female 9 1852 - Brighton, Sussex
John Lunn Son - Male 11 1850 Scholar Brighton, Sussex
Ann Thomas Lodger Unmarried Female 58 1803 Fund Holder London
H E Walduck Lodger Unmarried Female 27 1834 Fund Holder Birmingham
Elizth Stephens Servant Unmarried Female 39 1822 Ladysmaid Sweden

Sister in Law can mean either what we know it as today or step sister.
I spent a while yesterday looking for a marriage for James Williams to Anne but it was a lost cause. There are just too many. Anne gives her birthplace as Okehampton Devon and his as Warwickshire followed by NK which is not known. They may not even be married but I wanted her maiden name to try and find the Lunn link. I couldn't find them in 1881 or in 1861 but I will take another look later today.

I think there was a daughter named Elizabeth - its says Elizabeth was a sister in law?? I am not aware there was a daughter named Anne. Is there any relationship
different from what we know today as sister-in-law?

Thanks for the suggestion

Was there a daughter??

Name: Elizabeth Lunn
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 10 Oct 1852
Christening Place: St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: James Lunn
Mother's Name: Jane


Possible

Name: Elizabeth Lunn
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Brighton, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St Paul Deptford
Ecclesiastical parish: Hatcham St James
Town: Deptford
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: St Paul Deptford
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Household schedule number: 228
Piece: 741
Folio: 176
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
James Williams 26
Anne Williams 29
Elizabeth Lunn 19

Jane Pollard in 1891. Some names the same as the 1881.
Wouls say George and Sarah Tin are actually George and Sarah Tice.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Print household transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Tin Head Married Male 57 1834 Hotel Proprietor Scotland
Image Transcription
Sarah Tin Wife Married Female 56 1835 - Sussex
Image Transcription
>>Jane Pollard Visitor Single Female 48 1843 - Sussex
Image Transcription
>>Mary A Mockford Servant Single Female 33 1858 General Servant Domestic Sussex
Image Transcription
Sarah Mockford Visitor Single Female 17 1874 - Sussex
Image Transcription
John Wright Servant Single Male 24 1867 Ostler Domestic Surrey
Image Transcription
Thomas Waldrop Lodger Married Male 42 1849 Machinery Agent Surrey
Image Transcription
>>Clara Pollard Niece Single Female 24 1867 - Surrey


House name Hassocks Hotel
Street Spring Bank
Parish Keymer
Town Hurstpierpoint
County Sussex
Country England
Municipal ward -
Parliamentary borough East Grinstead
Ecclesiastical district Keymer
Registration district Cuckfield


EDIT I appear to have gone wrong with my Janes. This one is born in 1843 and the one you are interested in was born 1826. Maybe related somehow but sorry to have confused the issue.

Uhm! strange when her 8 yr old son is living in Slaugham as a boarder with Rice family.

Uhm! strange when her 8 yr old son is living in Slaugham as a boarder with Rice family.

Interestingly in 1871 Jane Elliott Lunn is still referring to herself as married. She is working as a servant in Cambridgeshire.

Name: Jane Elliot Sunn
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cuckfield, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Coton
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Registration district: Chesterton
Sub-registration district: Great Shelford
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 35
Piece: 1584
Folio: 24
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
George Bentley Morley 40
Jane Elliot Sunn 45.........Lunn on original and Mar. in status column.
Hannah Elizabeth Woodward 17

Many thanks to all who have responded to my request for info on James Lunn.

Thanks Alveigal, for 1861 date for James Lunn who is a lodger in Brighton, the age he is there would fit nicely with him having a son in 1863. Yes, Beverly the James Lund entry seems to fit too.

I will look at the Tice entry,in 1881, Alveigal. This hopefully could be a mistranscription, and be RICE. Thomas Henry was in the RICE household and that would maybe show a connection.

Marie Celeste, James' occupation on Thos. Henry's birth cert was Coachman, domestic, and yes the name Jane Pollard does tally.

Patchem, perhaps Jane was not married prior to marrying James Lunn, and had her children out of wedlock.

The names Elliott and Pollard seem to keep cropping up in this research.

Once again thanks everyone for the input and I will search thro' the names and dates you have suggested.