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Cheers Dea - a great help - I'll be back with the details soon as poss :-D

To get a copy of the marriage cert go to:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Just follow the instructions and it will cost you £9.25 (Other sites charge much more!!)

Tick to say you have the reference numbers and then you will need to give the year and quarter and the ref. numbers which you will see below.

Marriages Jun 1888
Kelland William Warrington 8c 233

Come back on here if you get stuck.

This should give you the father's name and occupation and the witnesses may also be of help as they may be family members.

Come back to this thread when you receive it and we can take it from there.

You will find your thread by clicking 'my threads' under 'Tools' to the left of the board.

Dea Xxx

Sorry - no I don't have it -

Appreciate all the advice - I'm learning a lot from you all and I'm a newbie to all this - How do I get a copy of the 1888 marriage cert ? One of the posts mentioned St Elphins - which is the name of Warrington's parish chuch - should I start there?

Earlier posts from Astra show the family as Bakers - and that's definitely my nan and her family. I'm confused by the varying d.o.b.s for him 1856,61,64

How long will it take to find out if you have the 1888 marriage cert?

Astra and Richochet - thanks for this information. I will need a bit of time to review the questions asked and respond.

As for W A Kelland - this is definitely a relative of mine - William Antrobus Kelland - he was killed in action March 1918 and I have details of the cemetery in France where he is named on the memorial but to my knowledge his body was not recovered

and the males died as kelland


First Name WILLIAM A
Last Name KELLAND
Year 1918
Soldier Number 125731
Rank Private
Unit Or Regiment Machine Gun Corps
Volume M.4
Page 455
Record set British nationals armed forces deaths 1796-2005
Record Source GRO War Death Army Other Ranks (1914 to 1921)
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

this one isn't on the CWGC site, so he can't have been a war casualty, but he isn't on freebmd, either

The children married as kelland

Anthony

Would you please answer all of the questions which have been asked in an effort to help you

That death fits totally with the 1859 birth as Kelland.

Using the alias Baker only on censuses would normally have suggested a criminal conviction, but there are no records on FMP of crimes committed by william kelland

Hi again Anthony

We need to know if you have any concrete evidence that John and Jane were his parents or that he was born as Baker?

sorry - he died in Warrington , Lancs in 1936 under Kelland

Another point to consider is that birth registration didn't always happen befor 1875, when the penalty system came into force

Marriages Jun 1854 (>99%)
KELLAND Mary Crediton 5b 665 Scan available - click to view
Luxton Laurence Crediton 5b 665

That's the first census I posted Dea and then deleted because the OP said that he was born Baker and that birth is registered as Kelland. But it fits the death details better if not the census.

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Chapel, West, Winkleigh, Torrington, Devon, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Lawrence Luxton Head - Male 42 1829 - Devon Image Transcription
Mary Luxton Wife - Female 40 1831 - Devon Image Transcription
Fanny Luxton Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Devon Image Transcription
Mary Luxton Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Devon Image Transcription
Robert John Son - Male 1 1870 - Devon Image Transcription
William Kelland Nephew - Male 11 1860 - Devon Image Transcription
Louisa Kelland Niece - Female 10 1861 - Devon Image Transcription
John Knight Servant - Male 18 1853 - Devon Image Transcription
William Ward Boarder - Male 35 1836 - Devon Image Transcription
William Chanter Boarder - Male 22 1849 - Devon

Until and unless Anthony gets the full details from the 1888 marriage cert, it's all a bit hit and miss.

The censuses certainly show a later birth than either of the entries posted on here

Doesn't this family fit better with that death?

Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
KELLAND William Torrington 5b 471



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wheatland, Winkleigh, Torrington, Devon, England
Print household transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Kelland Head Married Male 36 1825 Farmer Of 90 Acres Employing 1 Labourer Coldridge, Devon
Mary Kelland Wife Married Female 29 1832 - Coldridge, Devon
William Kelland Son - Male 2 1859 - Winkleigh, Devon
Louisa Kelland Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Winkleigh, Devon
Mary Kelland Niece Widow Female 52 1809 Nurse Winkleigh, Devon
Harriot Sanders Servant Unmarried Female 18 1843 General Servant Winkleigh, Devon
John Wonnacott Servant Unmarried Male 18 1843 Carter Winkleigh, Devon
William Passmore Servant Unmarried Male 11 1850 Farm Servant Wembworthy, Devon
Print individual transcription View image
Individual transcription
First name(s) William
Last name Kelland
Relationship Son
Marital condition -
Gender Male
Age 2
Birth year 1859
Occupation -
Birth town Winkleigh
Birth county Devon
House number -
House name -
Street Wheatland
Parish Winkleigh
City or borough -
Town -
County Devon
Country England
Municipal ward -
Parliamentary borough -
Hamlet -
Ecclesiastical district -
Registration district Torrington
Enumeration district 8
Piece number 1498
Page number 1
Folio number 75
Record set 1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Category Census, land & surveys
Record collection Census
Collections from Great Britain

Dea x

This just doesn't piece together correctly at all.
Are you positive that he is the son of John and Jane or was this something that you landed on through your own research. None of the names are carried forward to his own family which I find strange. He is younger on the census records than the William born in 1861 apart from his death record in 1936 which gives a birth date of 1859 and there is no link to the name Kelland that I can find in either John or Jane's family.
Something is wrong somewhere..............but where?

His name on his daughter's marriage cert is not exactly 'official' That is merely the name someone gave for him at the time.

He did not marry using a second forename.

His children were registered as kelland, a name which at least one used all his life.

WHO was his father? If he knew him, his name will be one the 1888 marriage cert. That piece of info is crucial

The JFM 1861 birth is actually too early for the ages he gives on the censuses above

When and where did William die? and under which name?

Is it possible he may have married Jane S Lee rather than Jane Hellings or do you have evidence of her name.

Marriages Jun 1860 (>99%)
Baker John Torrington 5b 899
LEE Jane Torrington 5b 899

1861

Name: John Baker
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia J Baker
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashreigney, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Ashreigney
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Torrington
Sub-registration district: Winkleigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 1498
Folio: 18
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
John Baker 21
Sophia J Baker 18>>>>>Born Burrington
William Baker 2/12


Name: Jane S Lee
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Lee
Mother's name: Mary Lee
Gender: Female
Where born: Burrington, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Ashreigney
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Devon
Household Members:
Name Age
William Lee 38
Mary Lee 36
Elizabeth Lee 14
Susan M Lee 10
>>>>Jane S Lee 7
Harriet Lee 6
Ann Lee 4
Maria Lee 10 Mo

Thanks Anthony.
So this looks like him with his parents

Name: William Baker
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Baker
Mother's name: Jane Baker
Gender: Male
Where born: Ashreigney, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Ashreigney
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Torrington
Sub-registration district: Winkleigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 50
Piece: 2195
Folio: 20
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Baker 31
Jane Baker 28
William Baker 10
Ann Baker 5
Robert Baker 4