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I have hit the wall as many of us do. I am trying to confirm what happened to a James Clifford b 1880 and his daughter Beatrice Harriet b 1908. A set of notes from 25 years ago said he gassed himself!! and Beatrice migrated to South Africa. in 1928 Beatrice who was a Chocolate worker (the family lived 5 minutes away from Bournville, Cadburys) married her husband John Henry Oosthiuzen a Corporation Fireman and he has no father named on the wedding certificate. Beatrice's father was still living according to that certificate. There is one chap in Canada who has them on a family tree on My Hertiage but with Beatrice's husband named as Johan Hendrik and a daughter but he is yet to reply to my query for 2 weeks now. As their daughters name and family is hidden! But they appear to have had a daughter who appears to have married a "van Rijswijk" and has 2 children. Can anyone one advise if any records cover migration to South Africa, or if anyone can find a Oosthiuzen marrying a van Rijswijk. in South African or Canadian records. I'm struggling.

Beatrice had a child in Surrey 1930.

For INFO

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3 Bulls Buildgs Stirchley Street Stirchley, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
James Clifford Head Married Male 30 1881 Warickshire B Ham Chocolate Works Transcription
Harriet Jane Clifford Wife Married Female 28 1883 Wawickshire Birmingham - Transcription
Thomas Rowland Clifford Son - Male 7 1904 Worcestershire Stirchley - Transcription
Beatrise Harriet Clifford Daughter - Female 3 1908 Worcestershire Stirchley - Transcription
James Edward Clifford Son - Male 1 1910 Worcestershire Stirchley - Transcription
Thomas Clifford Brother Married Male 40 1871 Warwickshire Bham Metal Works Working Cuth Transcription

First name(s) B
Last name OSSTHUIZEN
Title MRS
Gender Female
Birth year 1908
Birth day 31
Birth month 1
Marital status M
Occupation CASHIER
Departure year 1956
Departure day 7
Departure month 6
Departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Destination port CAPE
Destination CAPE
Country SOUTH AFRICA
Destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Ship name CARNARVON CASTLE
Ship master's first name A S
Ship master's last name BYLES
City SOUTHAMPTON
Ship destination port SOUTH AFRICA
Ship destination country SOUTH AFRICA

John Henry would have been the anglicized versions of the husband's forenames

Beatrice son ? (note his proposed address in UK:

Johan Oosthuizen
Birth Date: abt 1931
Age: 22
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 6 Feb 1953
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Durban
[Port Elizabeth]
[Cape Town]
Ship Name: Stirling Castle
Search Ship Database: View the 'Stirling Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 164570
Proposed address in UK: 182 Haygreen Lane, Bournville, Bourneville, Birmingham

Edit: Proposed address was family:
Midlands, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1955
Name: James Clifford
Name: Harriett Jane Clifford
Year: 1939
Ward or Division/Constituency: Kings Norton
Street address: 182 HAY GREEN LANE
Residence Place: Birmingham

The child born in 1930 was a boy......and you can see the record by using freebmd

First name(s) JOHANN
Last name OOSTHUIZEN
Gender Male
Birth year 1930
Birth day **
Birth month *
Marital status S
Occupation DRAUGHTSMAN
Departure year 1958
Departure day 29
Departure month 5
Departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Destination port CAPE
Destination CAPE
Country SOUTH AFRICA
Destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Ship name ATHLONE CASTLE
Ship master's last name ?
City SOUTHAMPTON
Ship destination port SOUTH AFRICA
Ship destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Number of passengers 0
Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960
Category Travel & migration
Record collection Passenger lists

First name(s) J
Last name OOSTHUIZEN
Title MR
Gender Male
Age 23
Birth year 1931
Occupation STUDENT
Departure year 1954
Departure day 18
Departure month 2
Departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Destination port CAPE
Destination CAPE
Country SOUTH AFRICA
Destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Ship name CARNARVON CASTLE
Ship official number 148766
Ship master's first name W
Ship master's last name BYLES
Ship master's title CAPT
Shipping line UNION CASTLE LINE
City SOUTHAMPTON
Ship destination port SOUTH AFRICA
Ship destination country SOUTH AFRICA
Ship registered tonnage 11.611
Number of passengers 512
Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960

http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=2142500

(above Gravestone John Henry Oosthuizen, from google search)

Chris :)


http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300ds?20141029111023FB4F9A63

(from below)

http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl

have you followed up on Beatrice's siblings, and their possible descendants?

Proposed address on 1953 shipping list was family:
this is the ocuupants in 1939:

Name: James Clifford
Name: Harriett Jane Clifford
Year: 1939
Ward or Division/Constituency: Kings Norton
Street address: 182 HAY GREEN LANE
Residence Place: Birmingham

Harriet J Clifford was still at this address in 1950 but living alone.

First name(s) THOMAS ROWLAND
Last name CLIFFORD
Gender Male
Birth day 18
Birth month 8
Birth year 1903
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1983
District BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Volume 32
Page 1001
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Who registered this?

Was she 'wife' or 'widow' when she died?

First name(s) HARRIET J
Last name CLIFFORD
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1883
Age 73
Death quarter 4
Death year 1956
District BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Volume 9C
Page 477
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

How much research have you done?

This is from freebmd!


Deaths Jun 1946 (>99%)
Clifford James 66 Birmingham 6d 483

Beatrice Husband travelling in 1951- note proposed address (address of his mother-in-laws)

Johann Oosthuizen
Birth Date: abt 1905
Age: 46
Occupation: Fire Officer
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 27 Jul 1951
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Durban
[Port Elizabeth]
[Cape Town]
Ship Name: Stirling Castle
Shipping line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 164570
Proposed address in the UK 182 Haygreen Lane, Bournville.

Thank you for the outstanding response to date, I have just scan read through the replies in my lunch hour at work. Beatrice & John got married on 22 of Aug 1928 with there stated age 20 & 23 respectively, the facts suggest James Clifford her father may have gassed himself in 1946 as it suggests he did not emigrate with his daughter and son-in-law. I'll be looking at detail tonight, in particular the headstone and birth record of their son?

Thank you again, I made the school boy error of misspelling in the surname "iu" instead of "ui". I have ordered the 1946 death certificate to confirm the other part of the note from 25 years ago.

I wonder why you thought James would have emigrated, when he had a wife and other family in Birmingham

Jacqueline.

The original notes reads "Harriet married Jim Clifford – they lived in Bournville Birmingham and he gassed himself!.
Children: Tommy, Beaty – who went to South Africa - and Jim"

so I assumed Beaty father may have travelled with her. I got her to have a younger brother James Edward & on the marriage certificate her father was named as James Edward just to increase the number of permutations!! So may be her brother went and came back as I have him passing away in Birmingham. I still wonder if they had a daughter Johann Harriet?

To me, that note reads that they had three children, Tommy, Beatty and Jim, and that Beatty went to South Africa.

If Beatrice and Johan had more children, then it would seem likely they were born in South Africa- and if the gravestone that Chris Ho put up earlier in this thread is correct, it would seem that they did have further children- The gravestone reads 'OUR DAD'.

EDIT: The gravestone may not be correct- this tree has that John Henry as the husband of Phoebe: http://www.geni.com/people/John-Oosthuizen/4841893843430024288

So maybe John and Beatrice did only have one child (male) in 1930