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If this is Harriet, then her executor could be 'Tom' from the notes


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Harriet Jane Clifford
Name: Harriet Jane Clifford
Probate Date: 3 Apr 1957
Death Date: 19 Oct 1956
Death Place: Birmingham, England
Registry: Birmingham, England

of Rubery Hill Hospital Rubery Birmingham widow. Administration (with Will) Birmingham 3 April to Thomas Roland Clifford cocoa worker. Effects £4482 13s 11d

As this is the later death, the names of the heirs may be more relevant. I'd suggest that Administration was needed as it may not have been updated after her husband's death

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about James Clifford
Name: James Clifford
Probate Date: 25 Sep 1946
Death Date: 18 May 1946
Death Place: Birmingham, England
Registry: Birmingham, England

Of 182 Hay Green-lane Birmingham 30 died 18 May 1946 at 1b Raddlebarn-roaf Birmingham 29 Probate Birmingham t25 September to Harriet Jane Clifford widow, Effects £1527 13s 4d

Might the Will give more details about his family? You could order a copy for £10 using form PA1S from the Probate office
http://tiny.cc/5um8ox

Today some good answers from Birmingham library Archive. 1a and 1b Raddlebarn Road were the addresses given for Selly Oak Hospital (which opened in 1897 as the infirmary attached to the Kings Norton Union Workhouse). So he passed away at the hospital!

Thanks I will be visiting, I am a member, but we live 120 miles away but visiting my mum today and taking my wife to a concert at 7.00. I don't think I'll be able to sneak away today!

The 1946 Electoral Roll will be held at the main library in Birmingham. It is searchable by address

Either visit in person, or contact them to ask if they can do a lookup for you, for which there may be a small charge

As it would cost me a large subscription I wonder if any one could please check who lived or what was at 1b Raddlebarn Road, Selly Oak, Birmingham, England in 1946. this was where James passed away and appears to be 1.5 miles away from his home of 182 Hay Green Lane, Bournville.

Griity, just spotted your last post on page 2. I think you have got the wright trip to England. On his sons birth certificate, the family are in London with his father as a Brigade Fireman at address 13 Woodside, Wimbledon.

Some of the answers received in post today. James Clifford passed away 18/5/1946. Cause of death. "Asphyxia from Coal Gas Poisoning. Suicide whilst the balance of mind was disturbed on account of ill health." He was a 1.5 mile walk from his home when he did the act!

His grandson was Johann Hendrick the same as his father also named on his birth certificate compared to the English version on his fathers marriage certificate 2 years before. Did the coroner know his grandson's 16th birthday was on the 18/5/1946.

I'll be able to read the coroners report in 6.5 years!!

This appears to be Johan (john) coming into England before his marriage to Beatrice:

Name: Mr Johan Hendrick Oosthuizen
Birth Date: abt 1905
Age: 22
Occupation: Fireman (Fire Brigade)
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 11 Apr 1927
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Cape Town
Ship Name: Balmoral Castle
Shipping line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd

Proposed address in UK was ? Fire Dept, Birmingham
Official Number: 129074


Possible baptism:
Johan Hendrik Oosthuizen
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 24 Aug 1906
Baptism Date: 7 Oct 1906
Baptism Place: Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa
Father Name: Johan Hendrik Oosthuizen
Mother Name: Anna Cecilia Brits
FHL Film Number: 1670388


This is Beatrice family in 1930
Midlands, England, Electoral Registers 1930
17a Sycamore Road, Selly Oak
James Clifford
Harriet Jane Clifford
Thomas Rowland Clifford
Eileen Vera Hunt

To me, that note reads that they had three children, Tommy, Beatty and Jim, and that Beatty went to South Africa.

If Beatrice and Johan had more children, then it would seem likely they were born in South Africa- and if the gravestone that Chris Ho put up earlier in this thread is correct, it would seem that they did have further children- The gravestone reads 'OUR DAD'.

EDIT: The gravestone may not be correct- this tree has that John Henry as the husband of Phoebe: http://www.geni.com/people/John-Oosthuizen/4841893843430024288

So maybe John and Beatrice did only have one child (male) in 1930

Jacqueline.

The original notes reads "Harriet married Jim Clifford – they lived in Bournville Birmingham and he gassed himself!.
Children: Tommy, Beaty – who went to South Africa - and Jim"

so I assumed Beaty father may have travelled with her. I got her to have a younger brother James Edward & on the marriage certificate her father was named as James Edward just to increase the number of permutations!! So may be her brother went and came back as I have him passing away in Birmingham. I still wonder if they had a daughter Johann Harriet?

I wonder why you thought James would have emigrated, when he had a wife and other family in Birmingham

Thank you again, I made the school boy error of misspelling in the surname "iu" instead of "ui". I have ordered the 1946 death certificate to confirm the other part of the note from 25 years ago.

Thank you for the outstanding response to date, I have just scan read through the replies in my lunch hour at work. Beatrice & John got married on 22 of Aug 1928 with there stated age 20 & 23 respectively, the facts suggest James Clifford her father may have gassed himself in 1946 as it suggests he did not emigrate with his daughter and son-in-law. I'll be looking at detail tonight, in particular the headstone and birth record of their son?

Beatrice Husband travelling in 1951- note proposed address (address of his mother-in-laws)

Johann Oosthuizen
Birth Date: abt 1905
Age: 46
Occupation: Fire Officer
Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date: 27 Jul 1951
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Durban
[Port Elizabeth]
[Cape Town]
Ship Name: Stirling Castle
Shipping line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 164570
Proposed address in the UK 182 Haygreen Lane, Bournville.

How much research have you done?

This is from freebmd!


Deaths Jun 1946 (>99%)
Clifford James 66 Birmingham 6d 483

Who registered this?

Was she 'wife' or 'widow' when she died?

First name(s) HARRIET J
Last name CLIFFORD
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1883
Age 73
Death quarter 4
Death year 1956
District BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Volume 9C
Page 477
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) THOMAS ROWLAND
Last name CLIFFORD
Gender Male
Birth day 18
Birth month 8
Birth year 1903
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1983
District BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Volume 32
Page 1001
Country England
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Proposed address on 1953 shipping list was family:
this is the ocuupants in 1939:

Name: James Clifford
Name: Harriett Jane Clifford
Year: 1939
Ward or Division/Constituency: Kings Norton
Street address: 182 HAY GREEN LANE
Residence Place: Birmingham

Harriet J Clifford was still at this address in 1950 but living alone.

have you followed up on Beatrice's siblings, and their possible descendants?