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Bit of a long shot but this Industrial School belongs to the Manchester Board of Guardians.

(There is also a Joseph Miller aged 9)
1891

George Miller
AGE: 12
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1879
RELATION: Scholar
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Worsley
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Peter
TOWN: Swinton
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

EDUCATION:

EMPLOYMENT STATUS:

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REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barton Upon Irwell
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Worsley
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: The Swinton Industrial Schools
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 3151
FOLIO: 123
PAGE NUMBER: 8

So Louisa was actually Hannah Louisa?

Hannah Louisa Miller
BIRTH DATE: 17 Mar 1850
BAPTISM DATE: 3 Apr 1850
PARISH: Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
FATHER'S NAME: William Miller, Butcher
MOTHER'S NAME: Elizabeth Miller
ARCHIVE ROLL: 767

Still not seeing her death registration

1861

Louisa Miller
AGE: 11
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: 1850
RELATION: Daughter
FATHER'S NAME: William Miller
MOTHER'S NAME: Elizabeth Miller
GENDER: Female
WHERE BORN: Hulme, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Hulme
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St George
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

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REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Hulme
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 43
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 206
PIECE: 2896
FOLIO: 106
PAGE NUMBER: 36
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
William Miller 45
Elizabeth Miller 44
Elizabeth Miller 17
Caroline Miller 14
Louisa Miller 11
Francis Miller 10
Samuel Miller 6
Thomas Miller 4

Same family in 1871 - So Louisa named her daughter after her mother and her sons after her brothers?

William Miller
AGE: 53
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1818
RELATION: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME: Elizabeth Miller
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Salford, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Hulme
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Mary
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Hulme
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 64
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 176
PIECE: 4005
FOLIO: 69
PAGE NUMBER: 33
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
William Miller 53 Butcher
Elizabeth Miller 53
Lousa Miller 21
Samuel Miller 16
Thomas Miller 14
Mary I Miller 7

Should have added, all the above born Manchester.

From the message you sent me, Samuel named his father as William.

Do you think that this is his mother in 1851 please? Do you think he actually named his grandfather just to save face?

Louisa Miller
AGE: 1
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1850
RELATION: Daughter
FATHER'S NAME: William Miller
MOTHER'S NAME: Elizh Miller
GENDER: Female
WHERE BORN: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Preston
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Paul
PHILLIMORE ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH MAPS:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

DISABILITY:

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REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Preston
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Preston
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 2ww
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 53
PIECE: 2267
FOLIO: 714
PAGE NUMBER: 16
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
William Miller 33, Butcher
Elizh Miller 33
Sarah E Miller 9
Elizh Miller 7
Caroline Miller 4
Wm Miller 2
Louisa Miller 1
Frances Miller 1 Mo
Louisa Meachin 27 Sister in Law
Ann Ireton

Gladys, if that 1881 census is the correct family, Samuel couldn't have a birth date of 16 September 1880. Baby Thomas was 8 months old when the census was taken so couldn't have an older brother born a couple of months before him.

Can you tell us which workhouse Louisa died in please? Were the children taken into the workhouse with her please?

Do you have Samuel and Miriam's marriage certificate please? If so can you tell us the name and occupation he gives for his father please?

The more information that you can give us, the more chance there is of finding the children in 1891.

Do you have a birth certificate for Samuel that gives the address where he was born or does that address come from his Navy records please?

Thanks to all of you for searching,my info is personal -Samuel Miller & Miriam were my matrenal G Parents they had 7 children,they lived in Old Portsmouth till Jan10th 1941 when they were bombed out of their home ,as a family they were very close.I met G Aunt Elizabeth about b1939,& her Husband(but I cant remember name)I know they had a daughtercalled Bessie. Samuel was born Sept 16th 1880 at 84 Primrose St Ancoat Manchester he enlisted in Royal Navy in 1900i in Portsmouth(I have his Navel records)I cant math any info to Thomas I found Louisa,s death in a workhouse inManchester approx1885 she died of TB I did not get a death certificat ,my G/Aunt lived inI think Called Chorlton-Come Hardy.I am not haveing much luck with 1891census in findingSamuel Thanks to all of you for your help GLADYS

This would be the above man?

George Miller
REGISTRATION YEAR: 1885
REGISTRATION QUARTER: Apr-May-Jun
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Wigan
INFERRED COUNTY: Lancashire
VOLUME: 8c
PAGE: 135


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1885

Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference

MILLER George Pemberton Wigan & Leigh MILLER PEM/51/14

Is this your family in 1911 please?

George Miller
AGE IN 1911: 26
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1885
RELATION TO HEAD: Head
GENDER: Male
BIRTH PLACE: Wigan, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Portsmouth
COUNTY/ISLAND: Hampshire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 24 Warblington St, Portsmouth
MARITAL STATUS: Married
OCCUPATION: Fish Frier
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Portsmouth
REGISTRATION DISTRICT NUMBER: 90
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Portsmouth and Mid Southsea
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 22
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 156
PIECE: 5614
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
George Miller 26
Miriam Miller 25
George Miller 2
Luicy Miller 3

If it is, I wonder why George had written his surname as Dick then crossed it out and put Miller?

Gladys, your tree on Ancestry has Samuel's DOB as 16 October 1879. Is this from information passed through the family please?

Bit of a shot in the dark here.

1911

Elizabeth Watson
AGE IN 1911: 35
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1876
RELATION TO HEAD: Wife
GENDER: Female
BIRTH PLACE: Manchester, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: South Manchester
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 32 Hr Chatham St C On M
MARITAL STATUS: Widowed
OCCUPATION: Resturant Keeper
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton
REGISTRATION DISTRICT NUMBER: 464
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Chorlton upon Medlock
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 33
PIECE: 23861
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Elizabeth Watson 35
Louie Watson 12, Daughter
Michard Watson 10
Bessie Watson 8
Catherine Watson 6
William Rogers 33
Edwin Rogers

Gladys, does Samuel give a name and occupation for his father on the marriage certificate please?

Samuel &Miriamwere my maternal G/Parenrs I was very close to them in fact they were a very close family until Miriam diedin 1970,Louisa died in a workhouse in Manchester, aproxamately1885,I have never been able to trace Thomas,but I knew G/Aunt Elizabeth,I met her husband but I cant remember his name & I know they had a daughtercalled Bessie &they lived in an area called Chorlton-Cum-Hardy??.I have never been able to find amarriage cert for Elizabeth.All the other info you have given I already knew,but I will follow up on my g/Aunt . Can any one give me any tips where??to look for Samuel?? In the mean time thank you all for all your help GLADYS

suggestion ..............................



I wonder if the Miller children were "adopted" or fostered, and took on that family's name??


OR could their mother have married before she died, and they are living with the step-father ......................... indeed, is Gladys correct in saying that mother died, could she have married at that point??



I have to go out and won't be able to do anything on here for several hours .......................



but has anyone tried finding the children under their forenames and birth dates / places only??????

In that case, so am I............lol!

We need some factual feedback from Gladys if we are to get any further with this.

I'm off out now...............will look in later.

Jacqueline, I can't see any of that family in later census or any appropriate deaths or marriages using the Miller surname! Perhaps I'm just having a few "senior" hours :-)

additional info re the birth posted by Chris

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1880
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MILLER Samuel Blackburn Blackburn CARTER B/212/33
MILLER Thomas Blackburn Blackburn CARTER B/212/33

Twins

And...........

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1881
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
MILLER Samuel 0 Blackburn Blackburn B/149/14

Has anyone had any luck with finding the 'right' Samuel in 1911?

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
32 Washington Road Buckland Portsmouth, Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Samuel G F Miller Head Married Male 30 1881 Oxfordshire Finstock Stoker Transcription
Catherine E Miller Wife Married Female 25 1886 Hants Portsmouth - Transcription
Leslie Y S Miller Son - Male 2 1909 Hants Portsmouth - Transcription
John Jackson Boarder Married Male 28 1883 Lancs Radcliffe Fitter And Turner Transcription


Marriages Mar 1908 (>99%)
MARSH Catherine Emma Portsmouth 2b 754
MILLER Samuel George F Portsmouth 2b 754


He married again in 1929.......possibly to his sister-in-law. The bride's name was Amy Marsh