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Just to add -
Maria and Samuel may well have had children between 1871 (or earlier, for all we know) and 1877 (if that's her death), but there are so many Griffiths and Amey births in the Aston / Birmingham/St Pancras areas during those years, that it's impossible to know if any of them were theirs, without spending a fortune on birth certs.

Thanks all for the info, will have to take time & try work all this out.

(for 1877 Death)

Warwickshire, Birmingham Burials, 1836-2010 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Maria
Last name Amey
Death year 1877
Cemetery Witton cemetery
Place Birmingham, Witton cemetery
County Warwickshire
Country England
Registry reference 83068

(gives below link)

http://bmsgh-shop.org.uk/BIRM-Cemeteries

Chris :)

That looks like a good possibility, Rootgatherer

EDIT: Samuel's still listed as married in 1881, but perhaps he didn't think to say widowed,

I wonder if Maria reverted to her maiden surname?

Maria Amey
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Registration Year: 1877
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 31
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 148

Ha ha! "Drunk and riotous"! I like it!!




Going back to Samuel's son John Thomas (born c1877, in Leyton, Essex, per 1891 census), this will be his birth:

Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
Griffiths John Thomas W. Ham 4a 203


1891, just to complete the record:

Samuel Griffiths in the 1891 England Census

Name:
Samuel Griffiths
Age:
46
Estimated birth year:
abt 1845
Relation:
Head
Spouse's Name:
Annie F Griffiths
Gender:
Male
Where born:
St Pancras, London, England
Civil Parish:
Leyton
Ecclesiastical parish:
Leyton All Saints
County/Island:
Essex
Country:
England
Registration district:
West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel:
16
Piece:
1345
Folio:
92
Page Number:
31
Household Members:
Samuel Griffiths 46 - commercial traveller
Annie F Griffiths 34
Samuel G Griffiths 5
John Thos Griffiths 4

16 July 1864 - Hereford Times - Hereford, Herefordshire, England

Ledbury
Harriett Amey, an unfortunate, charged by Supt. Tanner with being drunk and riotous in the streets of Ledbury, on the 28th June, and also in the Red Lion public house, on the same day, and refusing to leave on the application of the landlord. She was committed for seven days hard labour.

(also similar 29 August 1863)

Chris :)

Samuel's death:


Deaths Mar 1918 (>99%)
Griffiths Samuel G 74 Pancras 1b 154


Just a possibility for Ann's death:

Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)
Griffiths Annie 76 Lambeth 1d 407

Her birth:
Births Jun 1856 (>99%)
TAYLOR Ann Freestone Chorlton 8c 527

I'll summarise it for you, Ian - but be aware that some of it is conjecture, and you'd have to get certificates to prove it. Also, you haven't answered our questions re how you arrived at these people; whether or not you know if they did actually have children, and if so, their names - etc - so we've had to guess.

However, it looks as if Maria was the illegitimate daughter of Harriet Amey and unknown father.
She was born in Ledbury in 1848. By 1861 she was in an orphanage in East Grinstead, Sussex, presumably because Harriet couldn't cope as a single mother. (It looks as if Harriet went on to have another daughter, Mary Ann, in 1854, also by unknown father, and later a son, Robert.)
In 1871 Maria was living nominally as the wife of Samuel G Griffiths, in London. (Samuel born 1843, St Pancras.)
They married in 1872 , in Birmingham.
In 1881, Samuel is a married stationer, listed with his aunt, in Regent's Park. I don't know where Maria is in 1881 - in fact, I haven't found Maria after 1872.
They must have separated/divorced (or Maria died - you say she died 1921 - have you found a definite record of this?), because Samuel married Ann Taylor in 1883.
Samuel and Ann(ie) were still together in 1911. He's a traveller stationer in 1901, and living on own means in 1911. By 1911 they had had two children, one of whom had died. One of the children was also called Samuel George Griffiths, born 1885, the other (per 1891 census which hasn't been posted on this thread) was John Thomas Griffiths, born c1887.

I've found no sign of any children to Maria and Samuel.

wow I donot understand any of this???

That death was for an infant


Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
Griffiths Marie 0 Pancras 1b 65

Marie Griffiths
England and Wales, Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name: Marie Griffiths
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1897
Registration District: Pancras
County: London
Event Place: Pancras, London, England
Volume: 1B
Page: 65
Line Number: 183

There's a tree on Ancestry which gives Maria Amey's parents as Harriet Amey and Edward John Webb. (Don't know where the father's name comes from.)

It also gives them another daughter, Mary Ann Amey, 1854, Ledbury:

Mary Ann Amey
England Births and Christenings
Name: Mary Ann Amey
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 13 Aug 1854
Christening Place: LEDBURY,HEREFORD,ENGLAND
Mother's Name: Harriet Amey


So if that's the same Harriet Amey, then both the 1861 census records I posted earlier could be Harriet's daughters. Maybe Maria was abandoned/sent to orphanage (she may have met Samuel G while in London, at the orphanage or later), if Harriet couldn't cope, and then later Harriet had Mary Ann ???

He's a married stationer in 1881, but not with Maria:

Sam G. Griffith in the 1881 England Census
Name: Sam G. Griffith
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relationship to Head: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 38 Gloucester St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Stationer
Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Regents Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 176
Folio: 73
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Corman 72
Sam G. Griffith 37

There's this, before the 1872 marriage ??? He's a clerk.

Saml G Griffiths

in the 1871 England Census
Name: Saml G Griffiths
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Maria Griffiths
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Mary Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Mary Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 621
Folio: 75
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Sam'l G Griffiths 27
Maria Griffiths 21 - born Selbury, Herefordshire (but might be Ledbury on mage)
Millie Granville 19 - Lodger

Maybe not, unless Samuel remarried c1883 (married 28 years per 1911 census):

Samuel George Griffiths

in the 1911 England Census
Name: Samuel George Griffiths
Age in 1911: 67
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 28 College Place, Camden Town N W
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: PRIVATE MEANS
Registration district: St Pancras
Registration District Number: 9
Sub-registration district: East St Pancras
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 731
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel George Griffiths 67
Annie Preston Griffiths 48 (Freestone in image)



However, he is a traveller stationer in 1901, which would fit with the marriage record to Maria:

Samuel G Griffitts in the 1901 England Census

Name: Samuel G Griffitts
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Annie T Griffitts
Birth Place: St Pancras
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Pancras
Sub-registration district: Regent's Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 130
Folio: 144
Page Number: 33
Household schedule number: 346
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel G Griffitts 56
Annie T Griffitts 49
Samuel G Griffitts 15



Marriages Dec 1883 (>99%)
GRIFFITHS Samuel George Pancras 1b 87
Taylor Ann Frestone Pancras 1b 87

Where did you get Samuel's details from, Ian?
I can't see him in any census, either with his father before marriage, or with Maria after marriage.

Is this perhaps his birth? - nowhere near Aston, though:

Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
GRIFFITHS Samuel George St Pancras 1 267


Samuel George Griffiths
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth:
5 September 1843
christening:
25 January 1844
OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
father:
Samuel Griffiths
mother:
Elizabeth

If Maria is Harriet's daughter, here's Harriet in 1871 , still an unmarried charwoman (age agrees with 1851, though not 1861; son Robert more or less agrees with 1861):

Harriet Amey

in the 1871 England Census

Name: Harriet Amey
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Ledbury, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Ledbury
Town: Ledbury
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Ledbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 49
Piece: 2682
Folio: 29
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Harriet Amey 55
Robert Amey 11

Thanks Andrew.

I see she invented a father............

Name:Samuel George Griffiths occ Traveller
Gender:Male
Birth Year:abt 1844
Marriage Date:18 Aug 1872
Marriage Age28
Marriage Place:Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse:Maria Amey
Spouse Gender:Female
Spouse Marriage Age25
Father:Samuel Griffiths occ Hotelkeeper
Spouse's Father:Henry Amey occ Upholsterer
Reference Number:DRO 41
Archive Roll:M92


Andy