Find Ancestors

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1353142

?????????????

to jan and kucinta,
thank you for the help that you have given me in tracking down some of my
ancesters.
had to redo my family tree from my grandparents back.as iwas going in the wrong
direction
peter

Going by the birthplace of Christina and Sydney William, and bearing in mind Hornsey comes under Edmonton reg district:

Births Sep 1896 Kipling Christina Edmonton 3a 303

Births Jun 1898 KIPLING Sydney William Edmonton 3a 315

I think this is young Albert from the 1891:

Births Dec 1890 Kipling Albert Charles F Edmonton 3a 257

Louisa B is harder to find, unless she is actually Annie Louise and the census enumertor mistranscribed her initial into the census book:

Births Dec 1889 Kipling Annie Louise Edmonton 3a 264

Getting very speculative now, if the servant Mary Ann KIpling in census 1911 is correct, and not a complete red herring...

Deaths Sep 1893 Kipling Annie Louise 4 Edmonton 3a 175

Candidates for the remaining 3 deceased children?

Births Dec 1892 Kipling Mary Elizabeth Edmonton 3a 249
Deaths Dec 1892 Kipling Mary Elizabeth 0 Edmonton 3a 145

Births Mar 1894 Kipling George Sidney Edmonton 3a 299
Deaths Mar 1896 Kipling George Sidney 2 Edmonton 3a 167

Births Jun 1895 Kipling Edith Violet Edmonton 3a 299
Deaths Mar 1896 Kipling Edith Violet 1 Edmonton 3a 171

All extremely speculative. I can't find Mary Ann in census 1901 at all.

Just an aside! This made me check out B'ham town hall, googled re. archives. They are looking for any info people can provide, so I am sure would appreciate knowing anything you might be able to tell them about William.
I have seen many a performance there, but not quite old enough to have seen him!!
Jan

I have no idea if this is the right Mary Ann in census 1911. She says she has been married 23 years, which tallies with the 1888 marriage, and claims to have had 7 children, 3 still living, 4 deceased.

Her birth place in the 1891 census I posted earlier was a bit ambiguous.


Census 1911:

First name(s) Mary Ann
Last name Kipling
Relationship to household head Servant
Marital condition Married
Gender Female
Age 47
Birth year 1864
Birth place Suffolk Ipswich
Occupation General Servant Domestic
Address 112 Nelson Road Hornsey N
Parish Hornsey
County Middlesex
Country England
Registration district Edmonton
Registration district number 132
Subdistrict Hornsey
Subdistrict number 1
Enumeration district 20
Piece number 7212
Piece Number Suffix -
Schedule number 406
Schedule Suffix -
Census reference RG14PN7212 RG78PN353 RD132 SD1 ED20 SN406
Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales

1901 for young Albert from the 1891:

Name: Albert Kipling
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Scholar (Institutional)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hornsey, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Enfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Enfield Clay Hill St John the Baptist
Town: Enfield
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

and 1911:

Name: Albert Kipling
Age in 1911: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hornsey
Civil Parish: St John-at-Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 12 Montague Place, Hackney Wick
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: WAREHOUSEMAN
Registration district: Hackney
Registration District Number: 11
Sub-registration district: South East Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 20

1891 census, with some more siblings for Christina and William Sydney:

Name: Charle G Kipling
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A Kipling
Gender: Male
Where born: Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Hornsey
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Innocents
Town: Hornsey
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
Charle G Kipling 36 gardener c1855 born Bishop's Stortford on image
Mary A Kipling 30 c 1861 Image says Midd (?) Not known
Louisa B Kipling 1 c1890 Hornsey Middx
Albert C Kipling 5/12 c1891 Hornsey, Middlesex, England

NB the later birth year.

EDIT: re Bishop Stortford as Charles's birthplace on this census and the 1911 census, the 1901 census Jacqueline posted earlier had Christina/Christiana farmed out as a boarder in the Bishop's Stortford area. Coincidence?

KIPLING CHARLES G 1854 1936 1936 Deaths & burials Romford, Essex, England

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bentfield End, Stansted, Bishop Stortford, Hertfordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Kipling Head - Male 59 1812 - Lincolnshire, England Transcription
Elizabeth Kipling Wife - Female 53 1818 - Essex, England Transcription
Elizabeth Kipling Daughter - Female 31 1840 - Essex, England Transcription
Charlotte Alice Kipling Daughter - Female 21 1850 - Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Fanny Kipling Daughter - Female 19 1852 - Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Charles George Kipling Son - Male 17 1854 - Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Julia Kipling Daughter - Female 15 1856 - Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Louisa Beatrice Kipling Daughter - Female 11 1860 - Surrey, England Transcription


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Wareside Village, Ware, Hertfordshire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Kipling Head Married Male 69 1812 Inland Revenue Superintend Officer Lincoln, Middlesex, England Transcription
Elizabeth Kipling Wife Married Female 63 1818 - Newport, Essex, England Transcription
Charlotte A Kipling Daughter Single Female 31 1850 Out Of Employ Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Fanny Kipling Daughter Single Female 29 1852 Out Of Employ Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Charles G Kipling Son Single Male 27 1854 Out Of Employ Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Julia Kipling Daughter Single Female 25 1856 Out Of Employ Hertfordshire, England Transcription
Lucia B Kipling Daughter Single Female 21 1860 Out Of Employ Wandsworth, Surrey, England Transcription
Census details

Wondering whether his age was wrong on the census returns

Name: Charles George Kipling
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 06 Oct 1853
Christening Place: St. Andrew's Church, Hertford, Hertford, England
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1853
Father's Name: Charles Kipling
Mother's Name: Elizabeth

1911

First name(s) Charles George
Last name Kipling
Relationship to household head Inmate
Marital condition Single
Gender Male
Age 64
Birth year 1847
Birth place Herts Bishops Storford
Occupation Jobbing Gardener
Address Brentwood Essex
Parish South Weald
County Essex
Country England
Registration district Billericay
Registration district number 193
Subdistrict Brentwood
Subdistrict number 1
Enumeration district 21
Piece number 10016
Piece Number Suffix -
Schedule number 9999

The gardener occupation on the 1901 census for George Charles tallies with his occupation on the baptism registers for Christina and William Sydney..

1901
First name(s) George Charles
Last name Kipling
Relationship Inmate
Marital status Married
Gender Male
Age 53
Birth year 1848
Occupation Inmate Gardener
Birth town Newport
Birth town as transcribed NEWPORT
Birth county Essex
Birth county as transcribed ESSEX
Birth place England
Birth place other as transcribed -
Other household member first name(s) -
Other household member last name -
Street -
Town -
Parish Edmonton
City -
Country England
County Middlesex
Municipal ward Silver Street
Registration district Edmonton
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1266
Folio 124
Page 23

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Woodfields, Stansted, Stansted Mountfitchet (Essex), Bishop Stortford, Hertfordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Harriet Barnet Head Widow Female 49 1852 Living On Own Means Takeley, Essex, England Transcription
Agnes Barnet Daughter Single Female 21 1880 School Teacher Manchester, Lancashire, England Transcription
Susie Young Boarder - Female 6 1895 Scholar Sheerness, Kent, England Transcription
Christiana Kipling Boarder - Female 4 1897 Scholar London, Middlesex, England Transcription

There was an older sister baptised the same day as Sidney William:

Name: Christina Kipling
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Sep 1899
Father's name: Charles George Kipling
Mother's name: Mary Ann Kipling
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hornsey St Mary
Borough: Haringey
Register Type: Parish Registers

Birth was recorded as June 17th 1896.

EDIT: Address was 69 Myddelton Road, in case that's of any use.

?? Marriage of the parents named on baptism record


Spouse's first name(s) -
Spouse's last name -
First name(s) GEORGE CHARLES
Last name KIPLING
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1888
GEORGE CHARLES KIPLING married one of these people
MARY ANN HILL, ELIZABETH ANN DRAPER
Spouse's last name -
District ISLINGTON
District number -
County London
Country England
Volume 1B
Page 606

I am sure that's him as living in Erdington up till 1950 at least.
Jan

Name: Elsie M Kipling
Birth Date: abt 1899
Date of Registration: Mar 1931
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Birmingham North
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 2d
Page: 758


Might explain second marriage