Find Ancestors

????

Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
GILLIGAN Patrick Cardiff 11a 465

Thanks Gritty I will look into your theory on first appearing electrol roll.

Just come across that death

and this marriage (FMP Shows Lizzie and Arthur as the couple)

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

Marriages Dec 1919 (>99%)
Blay Arthur Gillan Chelsea 1a 1157 <<<<<<
Gillan Lizzie J Blay Chelsea 1a 1157 <<<<<
Hansen Frederick V Killengray Chelsea 1a 1157
KILLENGRAY Ethel M Hansen Chelsea 1a 1157

but be blowed if anything else on census, birth for Lizzie or Margaret's marriage - presumably to a Gillan, but who knows?

I think we've all been searching the same scenarios Greyghost!

Possible death for Margaret snr:

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First name(s) MARGARET
Last name GILLAN
Gender Female
Birth year 1835
Age 59
Death quarter 3
Death year 1894
District CHELSEA
County London
Volume 1A
Page 222
-------------------------------------------------------------------

If the other Gillans that appear on the Electoral register at 50 LOTS ROAD with Margaret are entered when they reach 21 this might give a clue to ages?

Years that they first appear at address
Patrick Gillan 1925
Francis Gillan 1928
Ernest Gillan 1929
Stanley Gillan 1931 (appears with his wife at 25 Uverdale Road, Chelsea)

Just got back in and have had a look at the "odd" 1911 census. Patsy and Maria definitely seem to be afterthoughts.
The first 4 named are Gillan then first name.
Patsy appears to have originally been Pat and has had the S & Y added (nickname?)
Pat and Maria have their first names first followed by Gill IAN
As Gritty says the number of children has been changed from 4 to 2
Also married years has been changed, there is a 6 under the 7 but don't know what if anything is under the 1
All the children's place of birth have been added
--------------
Margaret is from Wales
Can't find family in 1901
Pat and Maria born 2 years either side of that missing 1901 - in Wales (?related)
No birth certificates found for children (so not born Gillan?)
No marriage certificate for William and Margaret (saying 17 years would cover age of eldest child)
-------------
Not finding anything about Margaret Gillan Senior and Lizzie Gillan stepdaughter either other than 1891 census posted when a suitable aged son William is with them.
-------------

Gritty's Gilliard's have to be worth trying to track, or is this just another inconsistent spelling

I have all sorts of scenarios running through my head

Think this might rule out that birth in 1895

Name: Thomas Gilham
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 3 Dec 1895
Father's name: John Gilham
Mother's name: Elizabeth Gilham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Dartmouth Park Hill St Peter
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Registers

Are you aware that in 1928 a FRANCIS GILLAN appears on the electoral register at LOTS ROAD with Margaret and son Patrick?

and in 1929 an ERNEST GILLAN appears with them at the same address

????

Births Dec 1895 (>99%)
Gilham Thomas Islington 1b 241

Think this is worth looking into- on the 1911 census the family are living at 131 Cheyne Walk.

On the Electoral Register for 1907
William Gilliard 131 Cheyne Walk
George Shaw 131 Cheyne Walk

On the Electoral Register for 1911:
William GILLIARD 131 Cheyne Walk, Chelsea
Thomas Gray 131 Cheye Walk, Chelsea

On the Electoral Register for 1914:
William GILLIARD 131 Cheyne Walk, Chelsea
William Raven 131 Cheyne Walk, Chelsea
William Frederick Bushill 131 Cheyne Walk, Chelsea (from 66 Ulverdale Road).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1901 census:

William P Gilliard Head Single 25 1876 Ironmonger's Carman Chelsea, Middlesex,

Street Francis Street
Parish Chelsea
Country England
County London
Municipal ward No 2 or Church
Registration district Chelsea
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 73
Folio 31
Page 53

Others at same address in 1901:
Jane Slade
Herbert Partridge
John Phillips
----------------------------------------------

The 1911 census for the family is odd- it stated 2 children, but was changed to 4. The relationship and ages for Patsy and Moira appear to have been added after as though someone was unsure of what to put.

Patrick Gillian in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:Patrick Gillian
Probate Date:28 Aug 1954
Death Date:18 Jul 1954
Death Place:London, England
Registry:London, England

35 of Dartrey Road, Chelsea, London....At St Stephens Hospital Chelsea.

To Dora Ellen Louisa Gillian widow.

Effects: £225 10s 4d

Thanks Pricklyholly.

Will have to find out who witnessed the marriage. As for birth certificate myself and my Uncle took it that something happened to the records office where these things are all filed.

As William Patrick and Margaret have a Patrick with them on the 1926 Electoral Roll....perhaps "Patsy..Son" who appears in the 1911 census is actually Patrick?

I am wondering about this.......

Name:Patrick Gillian
Spouse Name: Dora E L Osborne
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1929
Registration district:Chelsea
Inferred County:Middlesex
Volume Number:1a
Page Number:1167

Edit: I see you already have this marriage.


Name:Patrick Gillian
Birth Date:abt 1903
Date of Registration:Sep 1954
Age at Death:51
Registration district:Chelsea
Inferred County:London
Volume:5c
Page:228

The info on an ER is name and address only.

You haven't said who witnessed the marriage.

The birth cert being 'destroyed' would have no bearing on the GRO index.

Yes Gritty that is my tree I started on Ancestry and when bug hit then used Genes as well I find it quite useful having access to both.

Do you know if there is any other information that can be obtained from the electrol roll other than address and occupants at the time.

That is Susan's tree on Ancestry Gritty.

The document referred to was an insurance document that my uncle found when my grandmother Ivy died. Also while by Grandad (Stanley) was in the Army my grandmother used to go round and help his mum (Margaret) out.

Stanley has always maintained that there was a problem with his birth certificate it got destroyed somehow this is what my uncle can remember him saying. Also when Moira died it was the police who came round to inform my Grandfather and he had to make the funeral arrangements.

I would agree also that William birth reg 1875 looks a match and yes it would be great if mother's maiden name mentioned but I thought that wasn't recorded until much later will have to send for certificate. I am ultimately looking though for his Wife Margaret's maiden name. On looking at the 1891 census I would think this was the same William.

A tree on Ancestry has middle name Patrick for William. And has this electoral register for the family in 1926:

William Patrick Gillan
Margaret Gillian
Patrick Gillan
Year: 1926
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Ward or Division/Constituency: Chelsea
Street address: 50 Lots Road

Other's at same address were:
Henrietta Cornelius
Thomas Cornelius

? you say they appear out of nowhere

Is that not William's birth Reg. in 1875 Chelsea - that would name his mother with her maiden name - right RD for 1911 census
and
is that not William in 1891 - occupation Porter as per 1911

I know the Death Reg, gives birth year as 1877, but age 50 Q1, the birth is more likely to be 1876 and then it's only a year out which is not unsurprising. Whoever registered the death can only give information as they know it.

1901 would make him old enough to be away in the Boer War for example