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Hello,

I am Jim Ballantyne, my wife is Marjorie Joan Leslie.

We are creating our family trees, and have met "the indian brick wall" trying to trace Marjorie's paternal line.

We have marjorie's paternal grandparent's marriage certificate, registered in Calcutta in 1920, this does not contain any age information about William; her grandfather

We are trying to find any record of William Leslie; whose father is James Leslie, (with no middle names).

William, born in Scotland? (I have not found him in Scotland) father's name is James Leslie, his WIFE's name is Margaret McNair (Maiden Surname Baird)

Both father and son had strong connections with St Andrews.

William spent a long period of his life in Calcutta. from around 1900 to 1949, when he died there.

William’s father James Leslie’s second wife ran a guest house “Home Lea” 1 Pilmour Place, St Andrews, under the name of "Mrs Baird" from around 1900±5yrs to 1955±5yrs.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

James Ballantyne

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Millars Wynd, 24, Dundee, St Peters, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

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Print transcription
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Baird Head Married Male 60 1821 Lamp Lighter & Gas Fitter Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
Ann Baird Wife Married Female 54 1827 - Ayrshire, Scotland
Transcription
Thomas Small Baird Son Unmarried Male 19 1862 Apprentice Mason Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
Margaret Mcnair Baird Daughter Unmarried Female 17 1864 Weaver Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
John Mason Baird Son - Male 14 1867 Apprentice Butcher Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland
Transcription
Peter Fleming Baird Son - Male 8 1873 Scholar Dundee, Forfarshire (Angus), Scotland

When was William born please, I think Im confused!



Name:William Leslie

Gender:Male

Marriage Date:31 Jan 1920

Marriage Place:Calcutta, Bengal, India

Father:James Leslie

Spouse: Margaret Macnair Baird <<<<<<<<<<<<I thought you said this is his mother?

FHL Film Number:463386

Hi, Jim -

Unfortunately,on ScotlandsPeople it's not possible to include mother's maiden name as a search term for births from 1855 onwards.

If he were born in Fife, this is the only birth without a middle name, 1920-40, but without buying a copy of the cert, it's impossible to know who the parents were:

1923 LESLIE WILLIAM M LOCHGELLY /FIFE 405/02 0002



In Scotland as a whole, there were 114 William Leslies born 1920-40.

Oh, I see, William is Marjorie's grandfather, not her father. (Well, maybe, I'm not sure on second thoughts!) Jim's explanation is a little confusing.

In that case, there were 26 William Leslies born in Fife 1860-1902; 416 in Scotland as a whole; and only one in St Andrews, in 1892, but with the middle name Lister.

And, as already said, impossible to know who their parents were without buying the certs.

British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns - Marriages Transcription

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First name(s) William
Last name Leslie
Marriage year 1920
Marriage date 31 Jan 1920
Spouse's first name Margaret Macnair
Spouse's last name Baird
Place Calcutta
Presidency Bengal
Groom's father's first name James
Groom's father's last name Leslie
Bride's father's first name James
Bride's father's last name Baird
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference N-1-443
Folio number 24
Entry number 301
Record set British India Office marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Name:Margaret Macnair Leslie & William Leslie - Merchant age 62

Gender:Female

Age:57

Birth Date:abt 1890

Departure Date:13 Oct 1947

Port of Departure:Liverpool, England

Destination Port:Bombay, India

Ship Name:Empire Brent

Shipping line:P and O

Confused too?? So from passenger list Gins put up, William was born c1885?

EDIT: Last UK address on the 1947 Passenger List was 6 Wallace Ave., St Andrews

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription (1928)

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name LESLIE
Gender Male
Age 40
Birth year 1888
Marital status M
Occupation MERCANTILE ASST
Departure year 1928
Departure day 5
Departure month 1
Departure port LONDON
Destination port BOMBAY
Destination BOMBAY
Country INDIA
Destination country INDIA
Ship name RAZMAK
Ship official number 147816
Shipping line PENINSULAR & ORIENTAL STEAM NAVIGATION CO.
City LONDON
Ship destination port BOMBAY
Ship destination country INDIA

Travelling with Margaret Leslie, age 42

Last Uk Address: 18 Melbourne Place, St Andrews <<<<

And I thought it was me!

Hopefully James will get back to us but at least we have a birth year for William (ish)

Hello Jim, Can you just confirm-

William's father was James.

Do you know who his mother was?

Who was James' second wife?

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 (1939)

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name LESLIE
Gender Male
Age 53
Birth year 1886
Marital status M
Occupation MERCHANT
Departure year 1939
Departure day 11
Departure month 12
Departure port SOUTHAMPTON
Destination port BOMBAY
Destination BOMBAY
Country INDIA
Destination country INDIA
Ship name STRATHEDEN
Ship official number 165614

Travelling with:
Margaret Leslie age 49
James Leslie age 19
Last Uk address: 1 Pilmour Place, St Andrews, Scotland

I've sent James a PM on how to get back here, just noticed it's his first posting

Hi All,

Thank you for your helpful replies.

I am glad you had the patience and managed to decipher my original post.

To answer some of the questions you have raised.

William's father was James. YES

Do you know who his mother was? NO

Who was James' second wife? We do not know. Fro further "clarification" the James with a second with was James Baird, not Williams Father "James Leslie".
I know this is confusing; too many people named "James", are in both our family trees; me too:)

We have the original William and Margaret McNair Baird, marriage certificate, Calcutta 1920, thank you for the copy of the information provided by Gins.

We have Margaret McNair Baird's birth certificate; 1885 is her year of birth, she died in 1976.

William and Margaret's marriage certificate, from Calcutta, gives no age information for William and only gives his father's name as James, there is no mention of his mother.

"Gins" supplied passenger lists for the Stratheden and RAMZAK are useful as they give William's approximate year of birth and age as 1886 and 1888, age 53 in 1939 and age 40 in 1928 respectively.
(I expect there is a minor transcription error in the 1888, or 1886 from the original handwritten passenger list).

Using "Scotlandspeople", and "Findmypast" websites there no record I have found of William's birth in 1886 to 1888, in "Britain", "Scotland" or "World" searches, using "all categories" or specific Births marriages and deaths, or census searches.

I have extended the searches to cover years from 1870 to 1900 without success.
These extremes are unlikely and given his wife Margaret NcNair was born in 1885, William's possible year of birth is likely to be around 1886 or 1888, even if that is impossible to prove at the moment.

Many thanks for posting all your replies.
Jim Ballantyne.

07 February 1920 - Dundee Courier - Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Marriage
LESLIE BAIRD - At the Wesleyan Church, Sudder Street, Calcutta, on 31st Jan., by the Rev. W. James, William Leslie, younger son the late James Leslie, Ancrum Road, Lochee to Margaret MacNair, only daughter James Baird, 22 Miller's Wynd, Dundee.

Chris :)

edits (if relating, google search bringing up items, Leslie, James, park-keeper, Lochee Park, Ancrum road)


28 December 1907 - Dundee Courier - Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Death
Leslie - At Lochee Park Lodge, on the 27th inst., James Leslie, parkkeeper, beloved husband of Catherine Leslie - deeply mourned.


1901 (Find My Past)
James Leslie Head Married Male 51 1850 Park Keeper Pub Park Duns, Berwickshire, Scotland
Catherine Leslie Wife Married Female 52 1849 - Newton, Midlothian, Scotland
Helen Leslie Daughter Single Female 21 1880 Jute Weaver England
Catherine Leslie Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Jute Weaver England
Edith Leslie Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Jute Weaver England
William Leslie Son Single Male 15 1886 Jute Merchants Clk England
Street Ancrum Road
Parish Liff & Benvie
Country Scotland
County Forfarshire (Angus)
Registration district Lochee
Archive reference RG13



Leslie William 20/04/1886 18/04/1898 Leslie James Lochee Park Lodge Ancrum Rd.
P.S.
01/09/1899 Working

http://www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/LiffRoad%20L.pdf

(relating to School above, page 6 of 8)

So William was born in England.

There are these possibilities:

Births Dec 1885 (>99%)
Leslie William Carlisle 10b 469
Leslie William Tynemouth 10b 192

Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
Leslie William Marylebone 1a 544


EDIT: But none of those would have been born 20/04/1886.

1891 (Find My Past)
James Leslie Head Married Male 41 1850 Gardener Scotland
Catherine Leslie Wife Married Female 43 1848 - Scotland
James A Leslie Son - Male 16 1875 Driller Iron Works Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Frederick Leslie Son - Male 14 1877 ? Coal Mine Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Helen Leslie Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Catherine J Leslie Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Brandon, Durham, England
Edith M Leslie Daughter - Female 7 1884 Scholar Brandon, Durham, England
William Leslie Son - Male 5 1886 Scholar Newcastle, Nottinghamshire, (Northumberland on image) England
House name Grays Buildings
Street Granary Row
Town Washington
Parish Washington
County Durham
Registration district Harraton
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 4124
Folio 62
Page 44

Chris :)


Births Mar 1875 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Leslie James Alexander Huddersfield 9a 352


Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Leslie Frederick Huddersfield 9a 356


Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Leslie Ellen Huddersfield 9a 363


Births Dec 1881 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
Leslie Catherine Janet Durham 10a 357


Births Dec 1883 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
LESLIE Edith Margaret Durham 10a 364

???? Maybe, a year earlier than on the school record??

Births Jun 1885 (>99%)
Leslie William Newcastle T. 10b 140

James Leslie

in the 1881 England Census

Name: James Leslie
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Catherine Leslie
Gender: Male
Where born: Berwickshire, Scotland
Civil Parish: Brandon and Byshottles
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: Eshwood Hall
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: Gardener (Dom)
Registration district: Durham
Sub registration district: St Oswald
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4951
Folio: 120
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
James Leslie 32
Catherine Leslie 33
James Leslie 6
Frederick Leslie 4
Helen Leslie 1

As Catherine's birthplace is given as Midlothian, in the 1881 census, this is likely their marriage:

1874 LESLIE JAMES LOCH CATHERINE LEITH SOUTH EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 692/02 0090