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Hi Mavis, yes this is where it got confusing. Yes I think you are correct in that Joseph was her father and she never married - William her first son I think now that she named him after her grandfather (josephs father).
Its strange that I was in Claarendon St Leaming spa a couple of weeks back and looked for the Clarendon Inn but no such building but on saying that they are old building and the Inn could be where the Hotel is now.
Thanks for your help and also Gritty you are stars
Pat

she was Sarah Allcock father Joseph Allcock she never married -
presumed being married and widowed as a better status than single
with children

Mavis

some search as led to (not 100%) believing that Sarah 1839/40 was wed to a Joseph Allcock so what was her maiden name???
First child named William and second son Joseph, I am asking would this relate to naming them after josephs father (William) and then Joseph jnr after his father. On early census she does nt state married etc., but on later census states Widow, then another states married name Dean??
Wow did this woman have so many different status's - Still all I want is her maiden name can anyone help.
thanks

Just to say have heard from member on this site who had certain people in their tree.
Still not ascertained to whom Sarah wed but the information they have give me on the tree line goes back to 1600s so have gained further details there but still left with Sarah (enigma).
Naturally will have to check all details out that has been given to me.
Gritty and Mavis once again thanks for your help.

GOSH!!!!! forgot to mention they gave me info
William.H Allcock 1779 - 1830 and Mary 1780.
Now Mavis, the info you found on the shopkeeper this would have been Sarahs grandfather.
Now there was a young William which would be sarah's cousin - PLEASE don't say she could have been pregnant by one of these - but on looking at grandfathers death it couldn't have been him so could it have been the son. Is there anyway we can check to see if the younger William had a grocery shop (did he continue the business) or can we check census's for him to see where about he was when Sarah was giving birth to the kids
thanks

Well great info at the moment and hoping for more to come.
The member I made contact with have exactly the same details as to what you yourselves provided regarding Joseph except that they have josephs father WILLIAM 1779-1830 and the family came from headless cross Redditch.
I did ask the member as to what connection they were but didn't answer this but have asked them again and any other info that they might have.
Will keep you posted

Thanks again for your hard work.
Taking a shot at this but with the info you have just found I have just done a search on this site and found a member has a Joseph (Redditch) but shows 1806 as birth though I would give it a go to see if any connection.

The Baptism I put up earlier for Sarah's eldest son, William, is correct. Birth was registered in 1859, but he was baptised in 1861- looks like she used her father's name as William's father

Warwickshire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: William Albert Allcock
Parish: Leamington Priors, All Saints
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1861
Father's name: Joseph Allcock (Labourer) <<<<<<<<
Mother's name: Sarah Allcock
Address: Clarendon Street<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And this 1861 census for Sarah's father at the same address as baptism above:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
26, Clarendon Street (Clarendon Inn), Warwick, Warwickshire, England

Thomas Adkins 58 Widower Innkeeper
Selina Adkins 30 Wife
Marian Willess 22
Sarah Hughes 15
John Farley 37
Charles Clarks 28
Joseph Allcock 58 Widower, Lodger, Needle maker, Redditch, Worcester
Thomas Taylor 30
Marian Taylor 22

birth cert started sept. 1837 -- but not every family could afford them -- it was
thought that if they had a baptism that was ok -- law brought in 1875 that you must have a birth cert. or be fined -- but some still got away with it travellers/ gypsies
mainly

William may be to do with father -- but who knows

if you research Joseph's family you may find a William some where so could be a family name.

Mavis

gosh, still trying to get my head around all this.
Are with presuming then that Joseph and Rebeka are sarahs parents.
It was known that the family Christian names continued hence the 2nd son was Joseph so where did William come from I ask.
Can you clarify as to what year Birth Certificates started?
thanks again for your help

that's a gooden then.

but it wont tell us who the father of the children is though !!

Mavis


:-) :-) :-)

So the 1841 posted by Mavis was correct :D

Posted again as a reminder: Note address

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
HEADLESS CROSS, Feckenham, Alcester, Worcestershire, England

Joseph Allcock Male 35 1806 Worcestershire, England Needle wr
Joseph Allcock Male 16 1825 Worcestershire, England
Reback Allcock Female 37 1804 -
Mary Allcock Female 19 1822 Worcestershire, England
James Allcock Male 13 1828 Worcestershire, England
John Allcock Male 10 1831 Worcestershire, England
Elizabeth Allcock Female 8 1833 Worcestershire, England
Sarah Allcock Female 2 1839 Worcestershire, England <<<<<<<
Sarah Allcock Female 78 1763 Worcestershire, England
Samuel Robinson Male 25 1816 Worcestershire, England
Silvester Alcock Male 14 1827 Worcestershire, England

This is the family of Joseph Allcock/ Alcock and Rebecca Robins

:-D

Redditch is Worcestershire. The place on the 1861 for Sarah'a place of birth is Headless Cross:

"In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Headless Cross like this:
HEADLESS-CROSS, a village in Ipsley parish, Warwick, and Feckenham parish, Worcester, and a chapelry partly also in Tardebigg parish, Worcester. The village stands on the boundary between Warwick and Worcester, 2 miles W of Ipsley, and 5¼ SE of Bromsgrove r. station; and has a post office under Bromsgrove. "
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/21454

Sarah in 1861 is down as being born Heat--- Cross not Leamington

some one who knows old writing better than I do - could you have a look
please -- then tell us what you think

Mavis

Not to sure if Redditch/studley/feckenham would have come under Worcestershire, so this would clarify to her birth Heath Crop. But why say she was born Leamington which was Warwickshire.
im getting very suspicious about our Sarah!!!!!

Ok Gritty in your own time.
Mavis,i think its head cross or heath cross. I think its definitely the one you just found 1861 census but born in Leamington I thought it was Redditch/studley feckenham???? sorry if im confusing the matter.

this is Sarah in 1861 in Leamington -- I am unsure of her place of birth
is it Worcester sh Heat----- Cross [ not crop]


Name:
Sarah Allcock

Age:
21

Estimated Birth Year:
1840

Relation:
Lodger

Gender:
Female

Where born:
Heath Crop, Worcestershire, England

Civil Parish:
Leamington Priors

Town:
Leamington

County/Island:
Warwickshire

Country:
England

Registration district:
Warwick

Sub-registration district:
Leamington

ED, institution, or vessel:
12

Household schedule number:
120

Piece:
2222

Folio:
35

Page Number:
18

Name

John Sheffield 32
Harriet Sheffield 39
Frances M Sheffield 10
Samuel Sheffield 8
John Sheffield 2
Mary H Sheffield 1
Sarah Allcock 21
William Allcock 1

Mavis

Sorry, have been at work today, so don't have much time- but just having had a quick look I think I might be confusing myself. Despite the fathers listed on the boys' marriages it certainly seems that Sarah was single- having children from 1859- 1873 with no father listed on 1861 or 71 census.

Am putting this info here so I can take a look later:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index,
Name: William Albert Allcock
Registration Year: 1859
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Warwick
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d Page: 4306
------------------------------------------------------------
???
Warwickshire, England, Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: William Albert Allcock
Parish: Leamington Priors, All Saints
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1861
Father's name: Joseph Allcock (Labourer) <<<<<<<<
Mother's name: Sarah Allcock
Address: Clarendon Street
------------------------------------------------------------

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Joseph Alcock
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 1 Apr 1866
Baptism Place: Polesworth,Warwick,England
Mother: Sarah Alcock

from 1871 census -- the only "shopkeeper " I have found


Name:
William H Allcock

Age:
39

Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1832

Relation:
Head

Spouse's Name:
Mary Allcock

Gender:
Male

Where born:
Cantley, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish:
Atherstone

County/Island:
Warwickshire

Country:
England

Registration district:
Atherstone

Sub-registration district:
Atherstone

ED, institution, or vessel:
19

Household schedule number:
37

Piece:
3167

Folio:
105

Page Number:
10

William H Allcock 39 Grocer
Mary Allcock 40
William H Allcock 13
Mary E Allcock 10
Sarah M Allcock 10
Edgar Allcock 5
Ernest F Allcock 1
George Moore 19
Mary Baxton 17

Mavis

yes William was her 1st born and all her children carried the name of Allcock. If William snr was married how did Sarah become pregnant with other children for she moved places.
Now William 1859 worked at part of Ragley Hall as a groom and coachman so he more or less stayed within the same district as born.
What was your thoughts on Sarah a Dean before marriage!!