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hi I am doing this backwards and slowly as I get documentation
My great grandfather was JOSEPH HENRY BAKER an uncommon name in Australia. There are many family tree sites that list him but all have the same mistake that I recently discovered. All or most show that he was born in 1854 but there is no birth certificate all the other children listed have birth certificates on either side of him. also it shows a sister born in 1854 (documentation) in June so he does not fit.
I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY HELP I CAN GET
I have documentation of him marrying at Port Pirie in South Australia on the 12Mar1876 at the congregational church (a wooden structure the only church there)
He is listed as a bachelor of 23 years of age and a blacksmith his residence was at the government dam. His father is listed as Alfred Baker.
He married Caroline Newbold listed as 22 and a spinster living in Port Pirie.
Port Pirie was named in 1845, 85acres bought in 1846 to develop a town, by the late 1860's there were only 3 wool sheds on the bank of the river. In 1871 surveyed.
28 Sept1876 declared a municipality population 947.
There were no newspapers.
There are a lot of Bakers in the 1800's within a 70-80klm radius of Port Pirie and I am doing several trees to see if I can connect him. (no luck so far)
I have come across only one Joseph Henry Baker in Births in England that fits 1852 in Hereford,Ross, England. I now want to see if the father is Alfred Baker but the English system seems different to ours need to know way to go. Thank u all
p.s early South Australian records have gaps on peoples arrivals etc.

The history is fascinating, I'm sure, but it clogs up the works when trying to work out the info about the people

Where was Henry supposed to have been born?

What was his father's stated occupation?

If Henry was 23 on 12th March 1876, he was born on or before 12th March 1853

First name(s) HENRY JOSEPH
Last name BAKER
Birth year 1853
Birth quarter 1
District SHIPSTON ON STOUR
County Warwickshire
Country England
Volume 6D
Page 493

Not that one - he died in infancy

You refer to a sister........full details, please

And of 'all' the other children................whose birth certs you refer to

This one has father Alfred.........but you give two versions of the name, with forenames transposed, so I'm not sure which to look for

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Sandhills Villas, Sandhills, Weathersfield, Braintree, Essex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alfred J Baker Head Married Male 41 1820 Registrar Of British... Great Bardfield, Essex, England Transcription
Elizabeth Baker Wife Married Female 43 1818 - Boreham, Essex, England Transcription
Edwin T Baker Son - Male 13 1848 Scholar Finchingfield, Essex, England Transcription
Ellen Baker Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Essex, England Transcription
Harry Baker Son - Male 8 1853 Scholar Essex, England Transcription
Alice E Baker Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Essex, England

I keep being drawn to this 1861 census Entry

Name: Henry Baker
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: 1852
Relation: Son (Child)
Mother's name: Emma Steward
Gender: Male
Where born: Hereford, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Newent
Ecclesiastical parish: Bristol and Gloucester
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Newent
Sub-registration district: Newent
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Piece: 1759
Folio: 13
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Emma Steward 31 Widow
Henry Baker 9 Son
Mary A Baker 7 Dau
Henry Archer 31 Visitor

the listed brothers and sisters were not his all born in South Australia
due to deductions I believe he was born in 1852
there is a Joseph Henry listed as born in Sep 1852 Heresford Ross England

have checked 1861 census ....no luck
have checked 1871 census...no luck
English census that is
1876 he was in Australia being married

I love that 1861 census and just might be the lead I need

Relooking at that census problem is it is Henry not Joseph Henry and county gloustershire

The birth you mention:-

Name: Joseph Henry Baker
Registration Year: 1852
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 375

To know for definately who is the father you will need to buy a copy of the certificate I'm afraid.
However,...........................

...................ancestry links this birth to a marriage and a death in Australia but I don't have worldwide so can't view I'm afraid.

Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Joseph Henry Baker

Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Joseph H Baker

It also links it to a birth in Australia:-

Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Elizabeth Sarah May Baker

It does state that he was born in Herefordshire and I can't find a birth for a Henry Baker in Herefordshire but I can find Joseph Henry. It might not be anything but I think it might be worth investigating further.

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Baker-12435

So taking a look at the above link that safc posted, it states that Joseph was actually born in Australia, so what makes you think that he was born in England please???

Again, according to the above link Alfred was married to Elizabeth Ann Pullman, so these are births found for this couple:-

1847 BAKER William Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLEMAN Adelaide 2/29

1850 BAKER Alfred Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLMAN Adelaide 3/43

1854 BAKER Henrietta Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLLMAN Adelaide 5/20

1855 BAKER John Henry Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLMAN Adelaide 5/267

1858 BAKER Alice Ellen Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLMAN Adelaide 11/402

1860 BAKER Arthur James Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLMAN Adelaide 15/446

1863 BAKER Charles Andrew Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann POLMAN Adelaide 27/485

1866 BAKER Albert Edward Alfred BAKER Elizabeth Ann PULMAN Adelaide 33/677

Are these names in your tree or is this another tree completely?

Although there is no sign of a birth for a Joseph Henry it is interesting to note that there is a John Henry born 1855????

Have you considered the possibility that although Alfred may have been Joseph's father that he was in fact illegitimate and his mother was not the same as the other children. Therefore, his birth may not have been registered as Baker but that of his mother. It's possible that Alfred did recognise him by the time he got married so he was able to note his father's name on the marriage certificate.

Just a thought?????


In any case the youngest child of this family was born in 1847 in Australia so a child born in 1853+/- in England could not be the child of this Alfred and Elizabeth.

This looks to be the marriage for above couple:-

Marriages Dec 1845 (>99%)
xxxxx BAKER Alfred Warminster 8 781
Burgess Thomas Warminster 8 781
FELTHAM Harriet Warminster 8 781
FELTHAM Ruth Warminster 8 781
Long Nathanael Warminster 8 781
xxxxx POOLMAN Elizabeth Ann Warminster 8 781

The district Warminster is in the county of Wiltshire

thank u all for your efforts.... answers

the wiki link follows all the other trees and it is the wrong Alfred Baker
I have altered my original tree and labelled it Alfred Baker and Elizabeth Anne Poolman and started taking my grandfather and descendants off it
have a new tree Baker 2015
one previous llisting points out how ancestry links the Joseph Henry
The birth you mention:-

Name: Joseph Henry Baker
Registration Year: 1852
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 375

To know for definitely who is the father you will need to buy a copy of the certificate I'm afraid.
However,...........................

...................ancestry links this birth to a marriage and a death in Australia but I don't have worldwide so can't view I'm afraid.

Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Joseph Henry Baker

Australia, Death Index, 1787-1985
Joseph H Baker

It also links it to a birth in Australia:-

Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922
Elizabeth Sarah May Baker
THIS APPEARS TO BE THE CORRECT ONE I WOUL LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO BUY THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE IF THROUGH ANCESTRY I CAN DO IT THAT WAY OR GOVT DEPT ENGLAND? THANK U

Order certs ONLY from

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

Ancestry rips you off - charging more than twice as much

BUT....why are you accepting a birth for JOSEPH HENRY, when you clearly state that the man's names were HENRY JOSEPH?

Ancestry's linking is tenuous - at best. They don't research anything

You must also remember that in the UK, penalties for not registering births weren't introduced until 1875, so that many, many births went unrecorded

Explain the following from your OP, please.

All or most show that he was born in 1854 but there is no birth certificate all the other children listed have birth certificates on either side of him. also it shows a sister born in 1854 (documentation) in June so he does not fit.


and then this...................

the listed brothers and sisters were not his all born in South Australia

Forgive me, but it seems that you're contradicting yourself

Which of your posts is correct?

this is what I have found and why I started a new tree called Baker 2015
and saving the old main tree as Alfred Baker and Elizabeth Ann Poolman as I traced that Alfred right back and I am removing all of Joseph Henry descendants from that tree

my apology to everyone my very first listing I put my great grandfathers name wrong it is
JOSEPH HENRY BAKER