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Thanks for the census info greyghost......not quite as described ;-)

Could this be the John Ernest who married Ruth?

1901

John E Shaw
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation to Head: Son (Child)
Gender: Male
Father: Joseph Shaw
Mother: Hannah E Shaw
Birth Place: Walsall, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2844
Folio: 108
Page Number: 16
Household schedule number: 90
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Shaw 43
Hannah E Shaw 38
Lilian Shaw 19
John E Shaw 16
Harry R Shaw 11
Dorothy G C Shaw 1

I think this is the same man in 1911. On the image he is the sole occupant. Married 3 years, 1 child born and 1 child living. Marriage details have been crossed out, presumably by the enumerator as that part should have been filled in by women.



John Shaw
Age in 1911: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Walsall, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Stretford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 516 Stretford Rd Old Trafford Manchester
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Insurance Agent
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463
Sub-registration district: Stretford
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Piece: 23650
Household Members:
Name Age
John Shaw 27
Mary Elizabeth Dickinson 32

Has anyone found the marriage for the aunt and uncle that Lily is with in 1911 please?

I have to go out shortly but will look back later.

Found the marriage

Maud Harriet Shaw
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Dudley
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6c
Page: 179

Records on Page:
Name
Harry Rothan
Maud Harriet Shaw

Do you have Lily's birth certificate please? Do you know for sure that her parents were John Ernest and Ruth?

I have ordered two certificates from GRO for the marriages Shaw - Bushell and Shaw - Bellingham. I have not ordered a cert for Lily!

I did state in my original query that I may have created a "Red Herring" for myself and I have to admit that John Shaw from Walsall is a possibility as the husband of Ruth Tuckley Bushell. Given that we think that Ruth died in 1949 in Wednesbury ( 3 miles away from Walsall) makes it even more of a possibility. However "Walsall John" was in Chorlton in 1911, did he move back down to his birthplace??

I just hope that I haven't wasted time of researchers.

Certainly not wasted the time of researchers but passed the time for us, in my opinion anyway. We do like a challenge you know lol.

Now what I am wondering is how you got back to John and Ruth. Are you trying to work back from Lily please? If so, can you tell us please when and where she married? Without Lily's birth certificate, all we really know is that she is the daughter of one of Maude Harriett's siblings. But which sibling?

Maybe?

John E Shaw
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Mar 1950
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 796

I wonder if this Lilian's birth reg. Quarry Bank seems to come under Stourbridge reg. District.

Lilian Shaw
Registration Year: 1907
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Stourbridge
Inferred County: Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 180

If that is her birth and she was born before John and Ruth married would she not have been registered as Bushell if Ruth was her Mum?

I ascertained that Ruth married John Ernest by using FreeBMD, (there is only one entry within Marriages for Ruth Tuckley Bushell).

I then enquired through a Genes Tree Owner for Ruth who advised "Look for Ruth Tuckley Bushell in the births for Lily May Shaw born 24 May 1908". - A wee bit confusing as I was unsure how to check births for 1908!

I couldn't find Lily in 1911 Census, until a stroke of luck took me to her Aunt, Maud Harriet Rothan who as Maud Harriet Shaw on previous censuses had a brother John Shaw who was born in Middlesbrough. I need to check other siblings of Harriet just in case they also had a daughter named Lily.

Given your comments about "Walsall John" I have a lot of further research to do!

This could be where the date of birth came from - assuming she didn't marry.

Lily May Shaw
Birth Date: 20 May 1908
Date of Registration: Mar 1979
Age at Death: 70
Registration district: Stourbridge
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 33
Page: 0884

Ah! Here we go!

Lily May Shaw
Birth Date: 24 May 1908
Baptism Date: 14 Jul 1909
Baptism Place: Ashted, St James the Less, Warwickshire, England
Father: John Ernest Shaw
Mother: Ruth Tuckley Shaw
Reference Number: DRO 10
Archive Roll: 640

On the actual image her date of birth is clearly given as 24 May 1909 and John's occupation is given as "JewelleryTrade". Address is 17 Churchill Road, Bordsley Green.


The 1901 census posted for John E Shaw gives his occupation as "Gem Seller".

Maybe this birth

Lily May Shaw
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Aston
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 373

Here is your Lily May in 1911

Lily May Shaw
Age in 1911: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 33 Isaac St Salford
Registration district: Salford
Registration District Number: 465
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 24053
Household Members:
Name Age
Fredk Wm Cook 47 Policeman, b. Manchester
Ellen Cook 36, married 2 years no children, b. Liverpool
Lily May Shaw 1 year 10 months

Frederick William Cook
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Birmingham
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 292

Records on Page:
Name
Frederick William Cook
Ellen Selina Smith

Rootgatherer

You have given me some great feedback, thanks. it is much appreciated. The link that you found between Lily and the Cooks is amazing!

I just wish we had found all this before you ordered the two marriage certificates! I think you'll find that the certificates are for two different John Shaws.

Now, interestingly your Ruth and John don't appear to have had anymore children whereas the other John and his wife did go on to have children.

There are three deaths (on Ancestry) for Lily Mays with the correct date of birth (24 May 1909) if you think that your Lily may have married.

Lily May Culver
Birth Date: 24 May 1909
Date of Registration: Mar 1979
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1553


Lily May Greenfield
Birth Date: 24 May 1909
Date of Registration: Apr 1995
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Selby
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register Number: 24B
District and Subdistrict: 6561
Entry Number: 135


Lily May Stewart
Birth Date: 24 May 1909
Date of Registration: Jun 1992
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Torbay
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 21
Page: 2112

Fits with 1992 Devon death:

England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Lily M Shaw
Spouse : Wallace F Stewart
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1932
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1666
--------------------------------------------------------------

Death?
Name: Wallace Franklin Stewart
Birth Date: 23 Jun 1912
Date of Registration: Feb 1990
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Torbay
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 21
Page: 2594
----------------------------------------------------------
Found John and Ruth on the Birmingham electoral register in 1935/ 36 (I don't see them listed in Birmingham for any other years:

94 EARLSBURY GARDENS, Handsworth
John Ernest Shaw
Ruth Tuckley Shaw
Leslie Oliver Wedgbury