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I have a Frederick W Clayton b. 1865/66 Deptford. I have him at home as a youngster and have him on 1891 census Deptford age 26 with wife Alice 26 and son Frederick age 1. Nowhere can I find him/them on 1901 census BUT I do have him on 1911 census with the lady he supposedly married Agnes Gertrude Elcock. Trouble is I just cannot find a marriage for this pair. I did find a marriage for Frederick and his first wife Alice (Alice Mary Hammersley 1st qtr 1888). The mystery deepens for me as on 1911 census I find living Peckham Park Road Alice Mary Clayton 48 (who describes herself as a widow! ) son Frederick 21 dau Beatrice Mary 18 and son Herbert George 16. Son Frederick was 1 on 1891 census and is 21 on 1911 which fits the time span. On the 1911 census there is a 20 difference in the ages of Frederick and Agnes Gertrude, he being 45 and she 25 which got me to thinking - as I cannot find a marriage for this pair and a lady looking very much like his first wife is living with her three children - do you think that perhaps Frederick left his wife and family for Agnes Gertrude but was unable to marry her as he was already married. I was hoping the 1901 census may have maybe enlightened me but I cannot find them anywhere. Would anyone be prepared to have a look for them as my eyes are nearly dropping out of my head !!!! Thanks.

Frederic W Clayton
England and Wales Census, 1871
Name Frederic W Clayton
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place St Paul, London, Kent, England
Enumeration District 52
Gender Male
Age 6
Occupation Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Birthplace Deptford, Kent
Entry Number 12
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/0748/0128
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

William Clayton Head M 39 Dunmow, Essex
Sarah A Clayton Wife F 32 Ongar, Essex
Albert E Clayton Son M 7 Deptford, Kent
Frederic W Clayton Son M 6 Deptford, Kent
George C Clayton Son M 5 Deptford, Kent
Rose E Clayton Daughter F 1 Deptford, Kent

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Fred Clayton
Canada Census, 1901
Name Fred Clayton
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place G, Wellington (north/nord), Ontario, Canada
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Ethnicity English
Nationality Canadian
Religion Latter Day Saint
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birthplace England
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Page 8
HOUSEHOLD

ROLE

GENDER

AGE

BIRTHPLACE

Fred Clayton Head M 36 England
Eve Clayton Daugh F 3/12 Ontario
Agnes Clayton Wife F 36 Ireland
James F Clayton Son M 3 Ontario

When a marriage broke up in those days it was virtually impossible for an ordinary working class person to get a divorce so the couple often just separated, moved to a different area and lived with another partner, calling themselves married even if they weren't. The partner who was left alone would often describe themselves as a widow or widower.

Looks like Malyon has found him for you.

Kath. x

No Kathleen unfortunately Malyon has not got the right family. The Agnes Gertrude I am after was born in Romsey, Hampshire and was some 20 years younger than Frederick. Appreciate folk trying anyway.

Where were they living in 1911?

Jude

1901 80,Birdin Bush Road Peckam Camberwell
Alice Clayton head 35 married born St Margarets Westminster.
Beatrice 8 St Judes Peckam
Herbert George 6 St Judes

I can't find son Frederick Marx Clayton 1890 on 1901 census.
Frederick died 1964 probate to Beatrice Mary Clayton spinster.
Beatrice Mary 15/11/1892 died 1979 .

Maryb.

The first marriage is on Ancestry

Name: Frederick Clayton
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Age: 22
Spouse: Alice Mary Hammersley
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 11 Mar 1888
Parish: St Mary, Spital Square
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Frederick Clayton
Spouse Father: John Hammersley
Register Type: Parish Register

If you haven't got this I can pm it

Jude

found this but may not be yours
Frederick Clayton with Alice Mary and Herbert George

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Frederick Clayton in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
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Name: Frederick Clayton
Year: 1923
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Deptford
Street address: 57 William-J

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Frederick Clayton in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
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Name: Frederick Clayton
Year: 1930
County or Borough: Lewisham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Deptford ---- Kitto Road

Where were Frederick and Agnes living in 1911?

Kath. x

Kathleen Bell
1911 for ref

Name: F W Clayton
Age in 1911: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: DEPTFORD, England
Civil Parish: Lewisham
Search Photos: Search for 'Lewisham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 45 Elswick Rd, Lewisham S E
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: HOUSE PAINTER
Registration district: Lewisham
Registration District Number: 29
Sub-registration district: Lewisham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Piece: 2752
Household Members:
Name Age
F W Clayton 45
A G Clayton 25
F W Clayton 49 ---- sister
E T Clayton 7
H J Clayton 0

years of marriage left blank
3 children born, 2 living

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
45 Elswick Road Lewisham SE, Lewisham, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
S W Clayton Head Married Male House Painter 45 1866 England Deptford
Transcription
Ag Clayton Wife - Female - 25 1886 Hampshire Romsey
Transcription
I Clayton Sister - Female Servant General 49 1862 Lewisham
Transcription
E A Clayton Son - Male - 7 1904 Lewisham
Transcription
H T Clayton Son - Male - 0 1911 Lewisham

Described as married no Fred junior with her
1901 census
England & Scotland Census Transcription
80, Bird in Bush Road, Camberwell, London, England


Alice Clayton Head Married Female 35 1866 - -
Beatrice Clayton - Single Female 8 1893 - -
Herbert Geo Clayton - Single Male 6 1895 - -

Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Clayton Agnes H Elcock Lewisham 1d 2081


Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Clayton Ernest S Elcock Lewisham 1d 1939

These are the only Agnes Elcock births I can find in Romsey at around the right time. The nearest to year of birth given in the 1911 census is Agnes Catherine:-

First name(s) AGNES
Last name ELCOCK
Birth year 1883
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ROMSEY
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2C
Page 98

or:-

First name(s) AGNES CATHERINE
Last name ELCOCK
Birth year 1886
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ROMSEY
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2C
Page 83

I can find no Agnes Gertrude births in Romsey at that time.

Kath. x

This is her christening

Name: Agnes Elcock
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 12 Feb 1886
Baptism Place: Romsey, Hampshire, England
Father: Harry Elcock
Mother: Agnes Elcock
FHL Film Number: 1596321
Reference ID: p 25 no 193

Jude

1911
Name: Herbert George Clayton
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ham, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Search Photos: Search for 'Camberwell' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 34 Peckham Park Road, Peckham, Camberwell S E
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: CLERK
Registration district: Camberwell
Registration District Number: 27
Sub-registration district: Peckham North
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Piece: 2548
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Mary Clayton 48 ----------- widow ??????
Frederick Marx Clayton 21
Beatrice Mary Clayton 18
Herbert George Clayton 16

If you haven't got a marriage for them how do you know Agnes's middle name is Gertrude? Do you have birth certificates from one of the children that gives her full name?

Katyh. x

1901 45 Elswick Road same as 1911
Frederick W Clayton house painter married born Deptford
Jane Clayton wife 43 born Wiltshire?

he was there in 1892 also!!

Maryb

According to a tree on Ancestry first child was Ernest T born 1904 in Lewisham

Jude