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Does anyone have access to Manchester birth or death records for 1846 and 1858? There is a problem with misspelled names… Manchester Vol 20 p 596 1846 Carding and Chorlton Vol8C p 424 March 1858 Carding.

I will follow this with a very long summary of what I have so far, so as to help people not to repeat the search of thickets of information. I used GR, freeBMD and Family Search.

Thanks

Hugh

I want to trace the life of Samuel Cardin b 1846/7 Manchester from birth to marriage. In that time he seems to have called himself Carding, Cardin and Carden. There are families of all three names in the area during this time. I can’t find him at all in the Census for 1871 or 1851, and there is a bit of doubt about his identity in the 1861 Census. I’m using Free BMD, Friends Reunited and Family Search. That’s the basic question. The rest below is background.

Marriage in 1871: I have the image of the certificate, showing Samuel Cardin 23 labourer, father Solomon Cardin Mechanic, marrying Maria Fox 24 , father William Fox labourer. Both ages are slightly off, I think. It doesn’t say that Solomon Cardin is deceased, though I think he was (see below).

There is good circumstantial evidence from the 1871 Census and the 1881 Census that Maria Fox had a child John William, already (b 1867/8), and he appears in the 1881 Census as John W F Cardin, 13, Hulme, silk spinner along with Samuel Cardin 34 tailor and his wife Maria 35 Manchester silk winder.

There’s a Samuel Carding born December 1846 (Manchester, Vol 20, p 596) I don’t have sight of the birth record. This is a time when a lot of children died very young in the areas of Hulme and Chorlton, but I haven’t spotted a death of a Samuel around then (in free BMD).

Solomon Carding Q1 1841 married Eliza Rothwell Manchester, and was dead by 1861 (Eliza is listed as a widow, with identifiable children). The 1841 Census has a Solomon Carding, 20 Machine mech, wife Eliza, 20, living in Blossom Street, Manchester. Solomon appears to have died before the 1861 Census, as I can’t find him in the 1851 or 1861 Census in Manchester. I have a burial record of a Solomon Carden on 14 Mar 1858, at Chorlton upon Medlock, Manchester. As I can’t find either Solomon or Samuel in the 1851 Census, I can’t connect them.

There is a clutch of Cardings and Cardens in Derbyshire. In the 1861 Census, Samuel Cardin 20 Matlock is training two nephews as tailors, both named Samuel Carden, one 14 born Manchester and one 22 born Matlock, in Matlock. If the Manchester tailor aged 14 becomes the tailor aged 34 in the Manchester 1881 Census, why is he described as labourer on the marriage certificate?

A Solomon Cardin was christened in Matlock in 1820, parents Michael and Elizabeth. But this Solomon Cardin seems to have married Mary in Matlock and had children there, possibly including Samuel the tailor b 1841 in the 1851 and 1861 Census for Matlock. Unless he was a fast-moving bigamist, it’s not the same chap as the Manchester Solomon Carding 1820/1 in the 1841 Census.

The key might be the birth certificate of Samuel Carding in December 1846 Manchester Vol 20 p 596 or the death certificate of Samuel Solomon Carding buried in March 1858 Chorlton 8c p 424. I don’t have a subscription that allows me to see this.

No subscription allows you to see birth certs or deaths certs online, you might find a baptism record that will give birth date also.

Just for helpers ref. after marriage

24, Abram Street, Hulme, Chorlton, Lancashire, England


Samuel Cardin Head Married Male 34 1847 Tailor Manchester, Lancashire, England
Maria Cardin Wife Married Female 35 1846 Silk Winder Manchester, Lancashire, England
Samuel Cardin Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Hulme, Lancashire, England
John W F Cardin Son Single Male 13 1868 Silk Spinner Hulme, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hughes Lodger Single Male 42 1839 Joiner Manchester, Lancashire, England
Edward Stringer Lodger Single Male 24 1857 Jobbing Porter Newton, Lancashire, England
William Winton Lodger Single Male 37 1844 General Labourer Manchester, Lancashire, England

for reference

Mary Cardin a witness
Marriage: 18 Dec 1871 St Mark, Hulme, Lancashire, England
Samuel Cardin - 23, Labourer, Bachelor, 21 Edge St
Maria Fox - (X), 24, Spinster, 17 Edge Street
Groom's Father: Solomon Cardin, Mechanic
Bride's Father: William Fox, Labourer
Witness: John Carney; Mary Cardin
Married by Banns by: Thomas Hill Guest M. A. Rector
Register: Marriages 1865 - 1873, Page 214, Entry 427
Source: LDS Film 2357302

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1846
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CARDING Samuel Ancoats Archives+, Manchester Central Library ROTHWELL ANC/33/14

?
Burial: 14 Mar 1858 All Saints, Chorlton on Medlock, Lancashire, England
Solomon Carden -
Age: 38
Abode: Hulme
Buried by: C. Burton
Register: Burials 1858 - 1864, Page 29, Entry 232
Source: LDS Film 2112987

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1872

CARDIN Samuel Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library


(the Death you mention)

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1858

CARDING Samuel Solomon 37 Hulme Archives+, Manchester Central Library HUL/52/


http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi

(from above)

Chris :)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

(another, can be useful)


Baptism
County Lancashire
Place Hulme (Manchester)
Church name St Mark
Register type
Register entry number 1216
Baptism date 16 Feb 1889
Birth date 29 Sep 1872
Person forename Samuel
Person sex M
Person abode 3 Kingston Street
Father forename Samuel
Father surname CARDING
Father occupation Tailor
Mother forename Maria

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above, also has below for Derbyshire one)


County Derbyshire
Place Matlock
Church name St Giles
Register type
Marriage date 18 Mar 1828
Groom forename Solomon
Groom surname CARDIN
Bride forename Mary
Bride surname TAYLOR


Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-19156
Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-19302
Manchester, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985


Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930 (Cathedral)
Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)
Manchester, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1866 (Cathedral)

(Ancestry have above collections, if anything relating)


Manchester School Admissions Registers

(above on Find My Past, also useful, they also carry other Manchester Records)

this could be him in 1861




Samuel Carden

England and Wales Census, 1861

Name Samuel Carden
County Derbyshire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Sub-District 2 St Peter
Parish St Peters
Registration District Derby
Age 14
Gender Male
Relationship to Head of Household Nephew
Birthplace Manchester
Schedule Type Household

might be him in 1851


Attach to Family Tree











Samuel Cardner

England and Wales Census, 1851

Name Samuel Cardner
Age 4
Gender M
Birthplace Manchester, Lancashire
Relationship to Head of Household Lodger
Schedule Type Household

Samuel Cardin

England, Manchester, Miscellaneous Records

Name Samuel Cardin
Event Type Workhouse admission
Event Date 1883
Event Year 1882 - 1883
Event Place Lancashire, England
Age 36
Birth Year (Estimated) 1847

Samuel Cardin

England, Manchester, Miscellaneous Records

Name Samuel Cardin
Event Type Workhouse admission
Event Date 1890
Event Year 1890 - 1892
Event Place Lancashire, England
Age 43
Birth Year (Estimated) 1847

Re "As I can’t find either Solomon or Samuel in the 1851 Census, I can’t connect them."

Well, if you'ld been reading your revious thread:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1355448?page=1
then you would be using the two sites I mention, viz:
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1841
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARDING Solomon ROTHWELL Eliza Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral) Archives+, Manchester Central Library CATH/19/379

I would call this a pretty solid connection:
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1846
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CARDING Samuel Ancoats Archives+, Manchester Central Library ROTHWELL ANC/33/14

Incidentally, Saml had a brother:
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
CARDING William Ancoats Archives+, Manchester Central Library ROTHWELL ANC/44/18


A sizable fraction of the 1851 census from Manchester got water damaged, and their transcription is very difficult. Manchester FHS evetually did transcribe them, sometimes even resorting to UV light.

******* COULD SOMEONE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS MOB - I DON'T HAVE AN ANCESTRY SUB *******

1851
Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Residence View Image
Solomon Cardney abt 1819 relation city, Lancashire
Ellen Cardney abt 1819 location city, Lancashire
Saml Cardney Wm abt 1847 location relation city, Lancashire
Wm Cardney Wm abt 1850 location relation city, Lancashire

Thank you all for all this. I did know about the Cardin - Rothwell marriage in 1841. This was probably (but I can't prove it) the couple who produced "my" Samuel Carden in 1846/7.

The 1851 Census entry for Cardney in Ancestry looks VERY promising, even if the wife's name is Ellen and not Eliza. I don't have an Ancestry sub either. Thank you mgnv.

Malyon, I mentioned the "nephew" in Matlock in the 1861 Census. There's a lot of Cardens in Matlock around then, and Samuel Carden senior has two nephews called Samuel Carden, hence the difficulty of being sure the the Manchester nephew is "mine". The discovery, quite late on, that "my" Manchester Solomon Carding had the full name Samuel Solomon Carding (as in burial record in 1858) both encourages and dismayed me. It's conceivable he had a brother also called Solomon something in Matlock.....if the family was that short of new ideas? The Matlock Solomon Cardin (as above, ) married Mary in 1828. Thanks, Malyon, for Samuel Cardner aged 4 in 1851. I'll chase it up.

I thought I was about to give up but these are new leads....

Hugh

Definitely them, John, Ellen, children Ellen Samuel and William, all the right age and occupations, lodging at 20 Stott Street, Hulme in 1851. Thanks very much indeed.

Except John and Ellen Cardner "should be" Solomon and Eliza Cardin. If this is a transcription of flood-damaged records, I shan't worry too much as yet. The birthplace of Matlock for "John" also ties in neatly, but I don't have any other evidence of this for Solomon, as he was dead by the 1861 Census.

Other information now to hand:
Solomon Carding Q1 1841 married Eliza Rothwell Manchester
1861 Census Eliza Carden (Widow) 41 Manchester cotton baller, children Ellen 17 cotton baller, William 12 steel reeler, Elizabeth aged 6 (1854/5) Manchester. Living 6 Little Pitt Street, St Clements, Manchester.

1871 Eliza Carden 60 (1810/11) Manchester, cotton reeler, aunt to William and Rosehanna Waterworth, living 8 Pitt Street, St Clements.

I am shoutingly pleased.

Hugh

Looking at an enlarged image of the actual census return (not the typed version on FindMyPast) I'd say the names were definitely Solomon and Eliza.

Don't know if the detail will be sufficiently clear on this link

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/20291617
(left of page)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/20291685
(right of page)

Image of the 1841 marriage:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/20291660

PS Samuel Cardin chr 25 December 1809 in Matlock. This is probably the uncle Samuel who trained up "my" Samuel in Derby in the 1861 Census. Solomon Cardin chr 16 April 1820 in Matlock. This is "my" Solomon, father of "my" Samuel. These brothers are among ten children of Michael and Elizabeth Cardin b Matlock between 1800 and 1825, one of whom had the "other" Samuel trained by uncle Samuel in 1851 and 1861.

Time to stop.

Hugh

Marie Celeste,

Thank you so much. I agree that the names look very like Solomon Carding and the name below might be Eliza, and isn't exactly like Ellen below that.

Also, thank you for the 1841 marriage record. I note that Solomon's father is Michael "Wesleyan Preacher" and Solomon is Turner & fitter (I think). it all fits and confirms.

I don't understand the "keepsafe" description. Is this something I can use with my GR Platinum sub? How do I find the pages?

Hugh

I would never have a Platinum sub on here but it's a facility available to all, even the basic membership (which is all I would pay for on this site).

Click on "Keepsafe" on the menu above and it's all there. It's where you save images of records you've looked at or photos, images, etc that you've uploaded to attach to your tree

Because I only keep a very basic tree on GR (preferring other sites) I tend to just use the Keepsafe as above. When sharing a document you've uploaded you just need to be sure that you've changed the settings for the particular item to "Shared with everyone" and then just post the URL for that image. Bit like a primitive version of e.g. Dropbox