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ah great thank you

Here's James Young senior in 1851, when his wife and son are in Norfolk:

James Young
in the 1851 England Census

Name: James Young
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1815
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Merton, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: St Anne Soho
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: 14 Crown Street
Occupation: Shoemaker <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Condition as to marriage: Married
Registration district: Strand
Sub-registration district: St Anne Soho
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 1510
Folio: 139
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Cummings 54
Benjiman Cummings 22
Esther Cummings 18
Rachel Taylor 19
James Young 36

ok thank you and yes middle name isnt noted on his marriage cert

I haven't had a chance to look again properly at this- (should get time in the morning) but notice he is not listed as James William on his marriage to Martha- just James.

i just really dont know the hendry bits are right as i have the marriage its just the james senior stuff but anything shoe maker is correct def

I can't see James senior, nor Susannah George in 1841.
Nor can I see them in later censuses (if they were a totally different couple from the ones we're looking for).

he was def a shoe maker both james's was and the james whom married martha that is def all correct have the marriage cert info here James jnr was born shoreditch i had his mother down as mary abt 1818 devonshire but that was from family notes so im really not sure at all as that could be wrong my entire family stems from hackney areas but branches to watton

This is why I'm questioning if the James William Young 1842 baptism is correct- on the baptism and marriage to Susannah James senior is a brush maker- but on the next 2 marriages he is a shoemaker.

I'll take another look

and also did James young senior really marry 3 women but only have the 1 child (james jnr) its really picking my brain this one

i cant find a death for Susannah even though his marriage to mary he is a widower three appear on freebmd but none appear concrete

im confused James senior marries susannah 1843 then mary ann hendry 1844 just a year appart with one in hackney one in watton im unsure ?

Thank you i have just been writing all this information down re the above marriage after the birth and baptism i see how and where it ties in was in normal for Susannah to already be calling herself surname young at the baptism even though she wasnt married at that point? normally the father information and surname was as per the maiden name if not married back then wasnt it ?

Thank you all for your help with this im going to re read it all as its so much to take in and fitting together

There is this marriage for a James Young to Susannah- and it does appear that these are the parents of the James William Young that was baptised in 1842 Shoreditch- even though the marriage is AFTER the baptism:

Marriage:
Name: James Young (Brush maker of Susannah Row) <<<<<<
Spouse: Susannah George (of Red Lion Street)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Sep 1843
Parish: St John, Hoxton
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: James Young (brush maker)
Spouse Father: William George (hot..?)
Witnesses: James Young & Wm Ballard
Register Type: Parish Register
-------------------------------------------------------------

This is the baptism that was put up earlier by Ann:

Baptism:
Name: James William Young
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 Oct 1842
Born: Aug 27
Father's name: James Young (brush maker)
Mother's name: Susannah Ann Young
Parish or Poor Law Union: Shoreditch St Leonard
Borough: Hackney
Address: 8 Susannah Row, Curtain Road <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Register Type: Parish Registers

Think this might help explain a few things- James marries in 1844 Watton to Mary Ann Hendry. James was listed as a widower, so it is possible that he was previously married to Susannah.

Mary Ann Hendry was born c1822 in Watton, Norfolk- her father was Robert. This Mary is on the 1851 census with James Young Jnr, and her Hendry siblings.

However, Mary Ann Young (nee Hendry) dies sometime between 1851 and 1859 (there are a couple of possible deaths).

James then remarries in 1859 to MARY MATTHEWS, daughter of Richard Matthews (a gardener).

This is the 1859 marriage:

Name: James Young (widower- Shoemaker)
Spouse: Mary Matthews
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Apr 1859
Parish: St John, Hoxton
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: James Young (deceased- Shoemaker)
Spouse Father: Richard Matthews (deceased- gardener)
Register Type: Parish Register
--------------------------------------------------

It is Mary Matthews that is on the 1861 census- explaining why one Mary was born Norfolk and the other one in Devon!

I don't have time to have a proper look now, but this might be Mary Matthews in 1841:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Squares Quay, West Alvington, Kingsbridge, Devon, England

Richard Mathews Male 60 1781 Devon, England
Mary Mathews Female 60 1781 Devon, England
William Mathews Male 30 1811 Devon, England
Maria Mathews Female 15 1826 Devon, England
Mary Mathews Female 25 1816 Devon, England

I think the James young baptism mother is right and it was Susannah and then the father remarried Mary Hendry as found im trying to establish their marriage (james and susannah)

ok all looks good what im trying to work out now william hendry is also a son to robert hendry his marriage was put earlier but his not in that census

Maybe????

Especially in view of the Francis Eagleton listed with Robert & Charlotte in 1851 posted above.

Charlotte Eagleton
England Births and Christenings
Name Charlotte Eagleton
Gender Female
Christening Date 16 Feb 1819
Christening Place Watton, Norfolk, England
Mother's Name Elizabeth Eagleton

(lol, no worries AG, hope it fits!)

Chris :)

Robert Hendry

in the England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Robert Hendry
Registration Year: 1839
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Wayland
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 13
Page: 567
Records on Page:
Name
George William Claxton
Charlotte Eaggling <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Robert Hendry <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Elisa Ann Mawle
Alexander Pitts Eliott Powell
John Reader
Sarah Ann Weyer


EDIT:
Oops, sorry Chris!

(just added 1839 Marriage to earlier posting, Robert to Charlotte)

Chris :)