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I'm currently researching my Horton line.

I've received my grans birth certificate in which it states her parents names.. but I cant seem to find a marriage record for them? I know he was married previously too.

On my grans record it says her fathers name was David William Horton (But I have found a William David Horton born in 1906ish)

her mothers name is down as.... this is what it says..

Frances
Lily
Maud
Horton
Formerly Francis

Anybody able to help? it's confused me..as I cant even find a birth record for her.

Thanks in advance xx

When and where was your gran born? (To give us an idea of timescale and area for her parents.)

????

Births Jun 1898 (>99%)
Francis Frances Lily M Yeovil 5c 396

Sorry, my grans birth record states she was born in Caerphilly, east Glamorgan

Was Frances married before??

Marriages Mar 1918 (>99%)
Barker William J Francis Pontypridd 11a 927
Francis Frances L M Barker Pontypridd 11a 927

Of course, your gran wasn't necessarily born near her parents' birthplaces or marriage place!

Not that I know of.
The record you shared is one I've also seen.

Only thing I know is that my grans father was previously married, and was older than her mother. he had children in a previous marriage and then had my grandmother and her two brothers with what it seems to say is Frances Lily Maud Francis.

David William Horton
Wales, Glamorgan Parish Registers
Name David William Horton
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 1917
Event Place Pontypridd St. Catherine, Glamorgan, Wales
Address 45 Llantrisant Rd
Occupation Miner
Father's Name William
Mother's Name Sarah

David William Horton
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name David William Horton
Event Type Birth Registration
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year 1906
Registration District Merthyr Tydfil
County Glamorganshire
Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A
Page 749
Line Number 222

IF THIS HELPS, MY GRAN WAS BORN IN 1938 AND I KNOW SHE HAD OLDER SIBLINGS THAT HER FATHER HAD IN A PREVIOUS MARRIAGE

That birth looks correct as her death cert shows her born c 1898/9

Deaths Mar 1967
Horton Frances L M 68 Pontypridd 8b 635

So if he was older than her he must have been born pre 1898


Have you found his earlier marriage ?

No, been unable to find it. I don't think she was married after she married him though x

Have you found when he died ??

Do you know any names for the half brothers ?

Jean rings a bell as a half sister.. I don't know for sure - but I can't remember any of the other half siblings x

there are only 2 norton births in 1938 in east Glamorgan but not with mothers maiden name francis

the name is Horton not Norton

there are births in 1938 and 1941 in East Glamorgan
and earlier births in Cardiff might relate? and even the earlier ones in Bristol
and there is one in Newtown in 1946
1912 Bristol and 1946 Newtown might be mutually exclusive :-)
... and there are marriages in both those places to account for those births

Natalie you started out the post without most of the essential info like -where- *and* -when- ...

with a birth in 1941 she could have been born before 1900 but not much

the two births in East Glamorgan are evident - when and where was the second brother born?

edit - the older brother was the 1929 Cardiff birth

the fourth child (second in birth order) died in infancy

Births Mar 1934
Horton Sylvia M Francis Cardiff 11a 440

Deaths Dec 1934
Horton Sylvia M 0 Cardiff 11a 317

so now we know that David and Frances were together by 1929, which is a lot more than you told us Natalie ......


can you tell us what David's stated occupation on your gran's birth certificate was? to possibly help in identifying him in the 1911 census

if Frances herself was still married to a first husband (Barker) at the time of your gran's and her brothers' births, she would have had to register their births in her husband's surname, regardless of who the father was, by law

she may well have simply neglected to mention that she was married to someone else and merely stated her own birth surname, so she could register the births in the surname of their father, to whom she was not married but purported to be

her death would then have been registered in her assumed surname, i.e. her new partner's surname, if that is how she represented herself publicly and how her name was reported by the informant

1911 census

Name: Maud Francis
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Daughter
> Birth Place: Yeovil, Somerset, England
Civil Parish: Radyr
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 7 Gilynis Terrace Morganstown Taffs We;;
> Registration district: Cardiff

George James Francis 35 printing (compositor)
Edith Lily Francis 34
Reginald Francis 14
Maud Francis 13
Edward Francis 8
Miriam Francis 6
Evely May Francis 4
Walter Francis 11/12
Francis Henry Hann 65 visitor

this is Frances (note that mother's middle name is Lily)

Name: David William Horton
Birth Date: 13 Jun 1906
Date of Registration: Jul 1988
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 27
Page: 1195

Marriages Sep 1930
Horton David W Marshall Pontypridd 11a 1195
Marshall Florence A Horton Pontypridd 11a 1195

but there are no Horton-Marshall births that seem relevant ... Florence Marshall might have been a widow

there just isn't another David W Horton to account for that marriage
... *except* ... Frances and David had a child in 1929 ... ??

this suggests that the 1906 David can't be the right person after all ............

looking at Frances's family in 1911

Births Dec 1896
Francis Reginald Walter G Yeovil 5c 399

two people have in their trees at this site:

Reginald Francis 1896 Yeovil, Somerset ...
Reginald Francis 1896 Yeovil Somerset England

and do you know the person who has

Frances Francis 1898 Yeovil, Somerset, England

? (the Frances born 1898 Pontypridd is actually a different person)

and one of the people with Reginald also has

Maud Francis 1898 Yeovil Somerset England

I didn't search for other siblings, but there's every possibility that someone in the family might know something of Aunt Frances/Maud


there are also 9 trees at Ancestry with Frances Lily Maud Francis (one I noticed says 'also known as Maud') with the parents and siblings from the 1911 census I posted above

.............. most showing her as married to William John Barker (died 1934) and numerous children with him up to 1931 ... which overlaps the 1929 Horton-Francis birth .............

>> unless I have opted for the wrong third Horton-Francis child birth and it was not the 1931 birth in Cardiff ... so it would certainly help if you would disclose more about the second brother, Natalie ... might the child have been registered under surname Francis? you know the child's name, just search for the birth with the given name and mother Francis, at freebmd, and see how the birth was registered.

first of several Barker-Francis children:

Births Dec 1920
Barker Reginald W G Francis Pontypridd 11a 1201

so she could be starting to look like a red herring as well ... but no one shows a death for her and the Horton death is the obvious match ... did she leave her husband and children?