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aha?

Births Mar 1883
CASSON Elizabeth Emily Camberwell 1d 936

(official registration to match the baptism added by Chris)

(another Baptism)

Chris :)

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 (Ancestry)

Name: Elizabeth Casson
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Feb 1883 (Born 28 January)
Father's name: James Casson (Hawker)
Mother's name: Ann Casson
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Peter
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
(Abode, 16 King and Queen Street)


http://www.census1891.com/streets-k.php

(King And Queen Street, St Peter, Walworth, ST SAVIOUR SOUTHWARK)


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 (Ancestry)

Name: Elizabeth Casson (Spinster. Mineral Water Maker)
Estimated birth year: abt 1883
Age: 22
Spouse: Ernest Richardson (Bachelor. Fishmonger)
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1905
Parish: Walworth Common
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Casson (Brush Hawker)
Spouse Father: Alfred Richardson (Cab Proprietor)
Register Type: Parish Register
(witnesses, Harry Henry Casson, Matilda Casson. Residence at Time for both, 77 Villa Street)


1911 (Find My Past)
Ernest Richardson Head Married Male Fish Porter 30 1881 Greenwich
Elizabeth Richardson Wife Married Female - 29 1882 Bermonsey
Hilda Richardson Daughter - Female - 0 (7mths on image) 1911 Bermonsey
Address 58 Longcroft Road Camberwell Se
Parish Camberwell
County London
Census reference RG14 PN2531 RG78 PN85 RD27 SD4 ED12 SN167
(married 5yrs, 2 children born, 1 living, 1 died)


Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
RICHARDSON Hilda E Southwark 1d 20


Births Sep 1913 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richardson Ernest L Casson Southwark 1d 239


(below, the one who died)

Births Dec 1906 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Richardson Winifred Matilda Camberwell 1d 890


Deaths Dec 1907 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RICHARDSON Winifred Matilda 0 Camberwell 1d 498


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 (Ancestry)

Winifred Matilda Richardson
23 Dec 1906 (Born Nov 21st) Camberwell St Philip the Apostle Southwark
Ernest Richardson (Fish Porter)
Elizabeth Richardson
(Abode, 48 Marlborough Road)

we'll give you time to absorb it all, and of course we'll all get some sleep :-)


in fact I had missed one of your last postings ...

you can't answer posts individually, sadly

all you can do is refer to what they said, and then reply to it


we know that this Eliza

Marriages Sep 1889
Casson Eliza St. Olave 1d 493
MORGAN George William St. Olave 1d 493

is your Eliza, because in 1911 she was 39 years old, which is the right age for your Eliza born in late 1871 who was in the 1881 census

Births Dec 1871
Casson Eliza St. Saviour 1d 27


your family has an Elizabeth 1883 in a census, but I don't know where she came from!

keep in mind though that Eliza and Elizabeth were different names, and families sometimes used both

I have a family with a Maria and a Mary, and another family with a Sariah and a Sarah ...


keep in mind that this seems to be the sum total of your James & Ann's surviving children

6 in 1881
Eliza Casson c1872
Ann Casson c1873
James Casson c1875
Thomas Casson c1878
Sarah Casson c1879
Matilda Casson 1881

plus 6 in 1901
Elizabeth Casson c1883
Charles Casson c1885
Henry Casson c1887
George Casson c1890
Milly (Amelia) Casson c1892
Polly (Mary) Casson c1892

... making 12, so 2 of them did not survive to 1911 it seems

Matilda was busy..
Sorry I can be a bit slow on the uptake. This is all new to me and I am finding it all very confusing.

1911 Census.. 19 Odell Street Camberwell. Matilda B1880 is married to Albert Aitkenhead B 1881. They have a daughter Margaret B 1910 in Southwark, also living at this address is Amelia Casson B1892 & Mary (Polly) Casson B1892. I think the family have split up.

You know about Matilda's marriage, just not sure whether you know all her children

Births Mar 1881
CASSON Matilda Emma St Saviour 1d 44

Marriages Jun 1909
AIT______AD Albert Arthur Southwark 1d 28
CASSON Matilda Emily Southwark 1d 28

Births Jun 1910
AITKENHEAD Margaret Alice Southwark 1d 22
Births Mar 1912
Aitkenhead Cecilia A Casson Camberwell 1d 1667
Births Sep 1914
AITKENHEAD Winifred E Casson Southwark 1d 217
Births Mar 1921
Aitkenhead Grace B Casson Southwark 1d 204

Name: Matilda E Aitkenhead
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Jun 1948
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 434


if you put a family tree at this site with all these names in it, someone related may find you if they search here one day

I admit that I would not want to be figuring out the family tree function here though :-)



by the way, re your reply Grace that none of the people possibly connected with the Miss A Casson who went to Canada were your relatives

that was the whole point we were making :-)

there are only a certain number of 'Ann Casson's that person could be, and none of them is in any way related to you!

Hi All. I am currently searching my home and have put the call out to my sons to see if we can find this letter from Ann.
Regards G

I am very sorry I have been messing this up. If I wanted to answer each posting how do I do that ?
G

Hi. Phew !! My head is in a whirl.. I think there is another family of Cassons floating about ? The part about Eliza marrying in Sept 1899. I have MY Elizabeth down as being born in 1883. So that would make her 16 years old.So very feasible. I did find in the 1891 Census a Charles Casson Head of Household married to Charlotte B 1857. They had a son Ebenezer Casson B 1882 in Camberwell. Also they had a James Casson B1876 in Camberwell. Also a John Casson B1880 Camberwell and last, but not least, a Eliza Horton B1831 Born in Milden Suffolk, down as mother of head of household.. Interestingly, her occupation is given as 'Living on her means'. This makes me very confused.

on the assumption that you don't know extended family members Grace, here's one more


eldest daughter of Sarah Alice Casson Greig

Births Jun 1899
Greig Alice Ethel St Saviour 1d 25

Marriages Dec 1918
Greig Alice E Reay Southwark 1d 22
Reay Gordon J Greig Southwark 1d 22

Name: Alice Ethel Reay
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1900
Date of Registration: Jun 1984
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Northampton
Inferred County: Northamptonshire
Volume: 7
Page: 2346

the birth date is out, but there is no other match for the name

I see no births, and no death for him

can't find them in the 1939 register


someone at this website has

Alice Greig 1900

in their tree, and no Alice Greig was born in 1900, so it could possibly be the same person

I managed to miss two entire messages on the previous page

from Sylvia answering all Grace's private messages

and from Rose giving baptism records including one I posted after that because I'd missed her post

Please Grace, read what is in the thread and reply to it here

it does no good to keep repeating the info you have about this Ann, because there are just no actual facts to fit that story!

I know the facts here get complicated, but they are facts

the surviving children born to James and Ann (Annie) can be seen in the various censuses

the births to the couple can be seen in the births index (some of them, including your mother, as Cashan rather than Casson)

there *is no* Ann Casson or any other child born after 1891 and surviving to 1901 who could be the child you have heard about

(and keep in mind that mother Ann was 50 by 1901)

and children, or anyone else, really, absolutely, did *not* get "deported" to Canada or anywhere else for committing crimes

wayward children might have been taken into institutional care and then sent abroad as "home children"

but that does not seem to have been the case for any of James' and Ann's daughters of an age to be writing from Canada during WWII and not already be OAPs.

do you have any idea at all where in Canada the aunt might have been?

accessible records in Canada are scarce for that period and it can be impossible to trace someone

the Mary Amelia Greig I found, for example, arrived in Halifax but could have gone anywhere (most commonly Ontario), but I have not found a marriage in records currently accessible - only up to 1928 for Ontario, to 1939 for Nova Scotia on line, but nothing there

I posted the freebmd version of the marriage earlier, but I always forget to go get the detailed record :-)


I hope Grace is finding this interesting !!

And possibly the parents' marriage, if that's of interest to you, Grace:

Ann Hart

in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Ann Hart
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Age: 21
Spouse: James Casson
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1872
Parish: St Peter, Walworth
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Hart
Spouse Father: Thomas Casson
Register Type: Parish Register

astounding - every single one of the people I searched for in 1891 either had a misspelled surname or a mistranscribed given name or a variant given name !!!

Miner Casson 39 (wrong given name)
Annie Casson 37 (variant given name)
Annie Casson 18 (")
James Casson 15 (missed him)
Lily Casson 16 (Matilda?? wrong age)
Elizabeth Casson 8 (born after 1881, gone by 1901)
Charles Carson 6 (wrong surname)
Harry Carson 4 (variant given name, wrong surname)
George Carson 8 Months (wrong surname)


Grace do you know the person who has corrected the name at Ancestry?

This is the Casson family in 1891:

Miner Casson [James Casson]
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Miner Casson
[James Casson]
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie Casson
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Horsleydown
Ecclesiastical parish: Horsleydown St John
Town: Southwark London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 5 Magdalen Street <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation:
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 368
Folio: 54
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Miner Casson 39 - Traveller
Annie Casson 37
Annie Casson 18 - bottle washer
James Casson 15
Lily Casson 16
Elizabeth Casson 8
Charles Carson 6 [Casson]
Harry Carson 4 [Casson]
George Carson 8 Months [Casson]

Sarah Alice Casson Greig's daughter Mary on the 1911 census was born in Greenwich

Births Jun 1908
Greig Mary Amelia Greenwich 1d 1102


could this be ? from the Canadian Home Children database

Item: Mary A GREIG (114441)
Given Name(s): Mary A
Surname: GREIG
Gender: F
Age: 18
>> no other Mary A Greig was born c 1908
Year of Arrival: 1926
Ship: ASCANIA
Date of Departure: 1926-12-09
Date of Arrival: 1926-12-17
Port of Arrival: Halifax
Destination: Various locations
Children travelling together: H26JF
Notes: NULL
Type of Records: Passenger Lists
Page Number: 201
Volume Number: 10
Microfilm Reel Number: T-14807
Reference: RG 76 C1b
Source: Library and Archives Canada
Database Item Number: 114441

she travelled as a domestic intending to reside in Canada

last address 32 Braham (?) Gdns, S Kensington SW 5

in 1911 Bramham Gardens was a street with numerous servants in households so that was likely her employer's address

the site shows these children travelling together on that voyage:

GRACE Alice B 18 F ASCANIA 1926 (also domestic)
GREIG Mary A 18 F ASCANIA 1926
WOOD Jeffrey 16 M ASCANIA 1926
TUCKER Cyril 16 M ASCANIA 1926
RIDGE Ernest 17 M ASCANIA 1926

**********

older sistes of Mary Amelia Greig

Births Dec 1898
Greig Margaret Ada Greenwich 1d 1073

Marriages Sep 1924
Greig Margaret A Moore St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1215
Moore Gerald T Greig St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 1215

Name: Margaret Ada Moore
Birth Date: 5 Nov 1898
Date of Registration: Oct 1986
Age at Death: 87
Registration district: Ealing
Inferred County: London
Volume: 12
Page: 102

Deaths Jun 1973
MOORE GERALD THOMAS 31DE1897 BARNET 5A 269

they were in Barnet in 1939, no one else in household


Births Mar 1903
GREIG Jessie Bertha Southwark 1d 38

Deaths Jun 1942
Greig Jessie B 39 Bermondsey 1d 69

I don't see her on the 1939 register ... she could have been using a partner's surname


either sister could have had children before 1926 ...



really just an example of a possibility

... but it does seem that Mary Amelia Greig, the daughter of Amelia Casson's sister Sarah Alice, emigrated to Canada

aha

I'll bet you can do that search (address) on FMP which I now have a sub to but I'm just so used to Ancestry after a decade plus :-)

that could indeed be the explanation

Joonie, the baptism for Robert shows address as 5 Magdalen st, as does whichever other one I looked at, but in the 1891 as far as I can see it doesn't show up...there is at least one damaged part of the census which 'might' be that area ( on Ancestry) but I am not sure how many pages if any might be missed out?

just for info, this would be James's and Ann's marriage

Marriages Dec 1872
CASSON James St. Saviour 1d 235
HART Ann St. Saviour 1d 235

Ann's death

Deaths Dec 1907 = born c1854
CASSON Ann 53 St.Olave 1d 89

probably her birth

Births Jun 1853
HART Annie Bermondsey 1d 54


this is the only baptism of a (possible) child of theirs shown at familysearch.org

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJ52-4BV

Name Robert Richard Casson
Gender Male
Christening Date 01 Dec 1895
Christening Place St. Mary Magdalene's, Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Father's Name James Casson
Mother's Name Annie


Births Mar 1896
Casson Robert Richard St. Saviour 1d 2

Deaths Jun 1897
Casson Robert Richard 1 St. Saviour 1d 15


this is a complete list of Casson births in St Saviour reg dist 1870-1900
* are the ones we know are James's and Ann's children

Births Mar 1870
CASSON Charles Thomas St. Saviour 1d 53 or 58

* Births Dec 1871
Casson Eliza St. Saviour 1d 27

* Births Mar 1873
CASSON Annie St. Saviour 1d 49

* Births Dec 1875
CASSON James St. Saviour 1d 28

* Births Sep 1877
CASSON Thomas St. Saviour 1d 30

* Births Jun 1879
Casson Sarah Alice St. Saviour 1d 32

* Births Mar 1881
CASSON Matilda Emma St Saviour 1d 44

* Births Mar 1885
CASSON Charles St Saviour 1d 38

Births Sep 1889 died 1889
Casson George Henry St. Saviour 1d 67

Births Dec 1890 died 1891
Casson Frank Jacob St. Saviour 1d 69

Births Mar 1891
Casson Edward Thomas St. Saviour 1d 4

Births Dec 1892 (son of James born in Ireland c1859, per 1901 census)
Casson Alfred St. Saviour 1d 103

Births Mar 1893
Casson Henry John St. Saviour 1d 8

Births Sep 1894
Casson George Alfred St. Saviour 1d 6

? Births Mar 1896
Casson Robert Richard St. Saviour 1d 26

Births Jun 1897
Casson William St. Saviour 1d 66

Births Mar 1899 died 1899
Casson Samuel Frederick St. Saviour 1d 63

Births Jun 1900 (son of James born in Ireland c1859, per 1901 census)
CASSON Samuel Henry St Saviour 1d 130


I haven't found birth regs for Amelia (Milly) and Mary (Polly)


some probable marriages

Marriages Sep 1889
Casson Eliza St. Olave 1d 493
MORGAN George William St. Olave 1d 493

1911 in Bermondsey

George W Morgan 44 lighterman
Eliza Morgan 39
George J Morgan 21
Beatrice Morgan 17
Grace Morgan 15
Albert Morgan 12
Edward Morgan 9
Winifred Morgan 7
Leonard Morgan 5
Eileen Morgan 2

Marriages Jun 1898
Casson Sarah Alice St Olave 1d 414
Greig Albert Edward St Olave 1d 414

1901 in Southwark

Albert Edward Greig 25
Sarah Greig 22
Alice Ethel Greig 2

Sarah had died by 1911

Albert Edward Greig 34
Alice Greig 12
Margaret Greig 10
Jessie Greig 8
Mary Greig 3

Marriages Dec 1899
Casson James St. Saviour 1d 280





so just an example of how Amelia could have had nieces and nephews her age or even older

one of whom might have been thought of as your aunt, although really your cousin


do you have any record of Amelia's birth? do you know the date of her birthday (day and month?)

the only Amelia born in St Olave district who would have been 9 in 1901 who had a twin registered on the same page was

Births Jun 1892
Lewis Amelia St. Olave 1d 310
Lewis Gertrude May St. Olave 1d 310



it is therefore interesting to note that the births of several of the children were not registered in Bermondsey

this birth is possibly interesting

Births Sep 1892
Casson Mary St. Olave 1d 191a

she is the only one on that page and it could possibly be a correction to

Births Sep 1892
Cashan Mary St. Olave 1d 191


>>> oh my goodness yes indeed

Births Sep 1892
Cashan >>> Amelia Emily St. Olave 1d 192
Cashan >>> Mary St. Olave 1d 191

the twins, on consecutive pages, under surname CASHAN

also

Births Sep 1896 died 1896
Cashan William St. Olave 1d 228

Births Mar 1899 >>> died 1899
Cashan Annie Amelia St. Saviour 1d 149

so that Annie Amelia Cashan is NOT your Ann, in any event


but still no trace of the family in 1891

I think you sent this message while I was adding the above, Grace


'Hi Joonie. A granddaughter ? She was always referred to me as my aunt. I was born in 1932 and my mother Amelia died in 1938 and then shortly after I was evacuated away from family to Devon. Therefore, I have always been too young to receive knowledge from my elders and had to rely on my siblings, who themselves didn't know much.'


okay now we know a little more, that Amelia at least is accounted for :-)

yes certainly, your mother was the youngest of the clan, 20 years younger than the eldest, so you were at a disadvantage for knowing your older relations

keep in mind that family relationships are not always accurately described ... you could well have had a cousin older than many aunts, if born in the 1890s or even earlier, a child of Eliza c1872 or Ann c1873, say ... she could have been 40 years older than you

this certainly happens ... I have a relation I met on line who thought her grandfather was my grandmother's first cousin ... he wasn't ... my gr-grmother Alice was the youngest in the family, and she and her eldest sister Mary each had a child before marriage ... Mary's in 1872 and Alice's in 1890 ... my newfound cousin thought her grandfather was Mary's son William ... but he wasn't, he was William's son William :-)

... so maybe this Ann was Amelia's older sister Ann's daughter Ann, just for example

it would be excellent if we could find this family in 1891 ..........