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just want to thank everyone who has put in the time and effort to help me find this family ..some of it is coming together now .Margaret winkworth and her family ..still struggling to find the right john Obrien ..but I have been given some irish leads on here so I will be checking them out
many thanks ..

On the offchance, if you google

"List of Irish Volunteers Cork Corps - Cork City and County ..."

http://www.corkarchives.ie/

PDF giving names , there are a lot of O'Briens listed, so no indication of age etc.

It is worth googling perhaps "Patrick John O'brien Cork Irish Volunteers" there are various sites that cover volunteers etc

RFA also stands for Royal Field Artillery, which was the forerunner of Royal Artillery, and they did have bombardiers.

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/5000/royal-field-artillery/

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27373

The same man:


Patrick O'Brien
in the UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1853-1928
Name: Patrick O'Brien
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 Jun 1887
Birth Place: Midleton Cork
Service number: 310827
First Service Date: 22 Aug 1906
First Ship Served On: Vivid II
Last Service Date: 18 Jul 1919
Last Ship Served On: Attentive II

In view of the info from the 2007 thread, as posted by RR above - I wonder if this is relevant??


Patrick O'Brien
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Patrick O'Brien <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Birth Place: Midleton, Cork, Ireland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: China and East Indies
County/Island: Royal Navy
Country: England
Marital Status: Single
Registration District Number: 640
ED, institution, or vessel: Vessels
Piece: 34972

1991 3,Longfield Road Ealing
Edward Bowman 1859 Nottingham.
Margaret Charlotte lucy May Duckworth age 18 born Lambeth? Housemaid

When viewing original it says Winkworth not Duckworth.

Maryb

This is the thread from 2007

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/718837

"Hi, i'm trying to find my dad's grandfather and his family in Ireland but dont know where to begin? All i know is he was born around 1892 in Middleton County Cork, and his name was John O'Brien (on his marriage certificate) although family members have referred to him as Patrick John O'Brien. He was in the Royal Horse Artillery, and i've been told he went A.W.O.L from the british army to fight in the Irish civil war? His father was also John O'Brien and a farmer, who was still living in 1920 when he got married in England to my dad's granny, Margaret Winkworth. "

Going back to "bomb RFA" -

looking at the image, I think it says "bombr RFA".

Bomb, or bombr, should stand for bombardier.

From this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_%28rank%29

"Bombardier (Bdr) and lance-bombardier (LBdr or L/Bdr) are used by the British Army in the Royal Artillery and Royal Horse Artillery. . . . . . "Bomb" is widely used as an informal form of address for both full bombardiers and lance-bombardiers. "


Only trouble is, the RFA (Royal Fleet Auxiliary as suggested on page 1) doesn't seem to have had bombardiers.

If it had been RHA (Royal Horse Artillery) - which did have bombardiers - that could fit with the John O'Brien born Bansha, Co Tipperary in the 1911 posted on 21st March @ 18:56.

I wonder if the registrar wrote RFA instead of RHA??

On the other hand, the Midleton, Cork suggestion might fit better with the John O'Brien from "Berihram", Cork, who was a fusilier.
I've no idea what "Berihram" is a garbled version of - can't make out anything more sensible from the image of 1911 census.

Re the 2nd Dublin Fusiliers:
Upon the conclusion of the war, the 2nd Battalion returned to the UK, being based in Buttevant, Cork, Ireland. It left for Aldershot, England in 1910, where it received its new Colours from the Regiment's Colonel-in-Chief the following year. It remained in England until war began in 1914.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dublin_Fusiliers

However, the RDF doesn't seem to have had bombardiers either.

????????????

Did John O'Brien die???

If so, is this possible for Margaret in 1939 possible?????

1939 Register

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Margaret Corkett (O'Brien) 23 Nov 1892 Officer Cleaner Widow
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Victor John O'Brien 01 May 1924 Married Unemployed Leather Worker Seeking Work


The change of name for Margaret indicates that she was O'Brien when the Register was taken but that she married a Mr Corkett sometime after 1939



England & Wales marriages 1837-2008

First name(s) MARGARET M
Last name O'BRIEN
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1942
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MARGARET M O'BRIEN married
THOMAS A CORKETT
Spouse's last name CORKETT
District THURROCK
District number -
County Essex
Country England
Volume 4A
Page 1433
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Life Events (BDMs)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom



Victor John O'Brien died 1990.

I cannot find a birth registration for him ????

I'm trying to find the Winkworth children, now orphaned, in the 1911 Census. Difficult!!

I think this is Daisy as a Visitor

1911 Census

Name Age
Elizabeth Allen 49 Laundress
Florence Allen 19 Laundress (Callendars Hand)
Maud Allen 14
John James Allen 10
Grace Allen 8
Elizabeth Horman 22 Laundress (Starcher)
Dasey Winkworth 17 Laundress (Callendars Machinist) <<<< image actually says (Collar Machinist)



???????????

Name: James Winkworth
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Penge
Search Photos: Search for 'Penge' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: Work House, North Surrey District School Anerley Road, Anerley S E
Registration district: Croydon
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration district: Penge
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 3420

This was a huge school for both boys and giris, paupers form several areas in London. It was what they called an Industrial School where the children were trained for various occupations.


I cannot find Margaret Charlotte :-S

John Edward was in the Royal Navy

UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1853-1928

Name: John Edward James Winkworth
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 1 Aug 1899
Birth Place: Batham London
Service number: K44853
First Service Date: 7 Aug 1917
First Ship Served On: Pembroke II
Last Service Date: 17 May 1919
Last Ship Served On: Prince George

from image:-

Occupation:- Labourer
Joined for the duration of the Hositlities
Height:- 5' 7½"
Hair:- Light Brown
Eyes:- Blue

John Edward was baptised after his father's death ..............


London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: John Edward James Winkworth
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 4 Aug 1901
Father's name: John Henry Winkworth
Mother's name: Margaret Mcgregor Winkworth
Parish or Poor Law Union: Summers Town
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born 1 August 1899
Address:- 3 Cambridge terrace, Foss Road
Father:- deceased


His marriage isn't showing on ancestry

Margaret's birth registration

Name: Margaret McGregoir Fleming
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Birkenhead
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 439

Margaret Fleming in 1891, just before her marriage

1891 Census

Name: Margaret Fleming
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: James C Fleming
Gender: Female
Where born: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 7

Piece: 463
Folio: 58
Page Number: 49

James C Fleming 52 b.ca 1839, Edinboro, Widower, Skinner & Leather Dresser
Margaret Fleming 21 Laundress
John Fleming 20 b.ca 1871, Liverpool, Furniture Packer
Jennie Fleming 18 b.ca 1873, Ellesmere, [no occupation shown]

Address:- no 9 Block D, Waterloo Square

Not sure but this might be the John from the 1901 census? if anyone wants to check further tonight

Births Sep 1899 (>99%)
Winkworth John Edward J Lambeth 1d 410

was in the merchant navy

possible marriage

Marriages Dec 1928 (>99%)

ROBSON Annie Winkworth Wandsworth 1d 1048
WINKWORTH John E J Robson Wandsworth 1d 1048

from ancestry

London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: John Henry Winkworth
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Age: 26
Spouse: Margaret Mc George Fleming <<<<<< it is Margaret Mc Gregoir
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Aug 1891
Parish: St Chrysostom, Peckham
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Edward Ellick Winkworth
Spouse Father: James Carle Fleming
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

John Henry
Bachelor
Occupation:- Grocer
Address:- 85 Marmont (??sp) Road, Peckham
Father occupation: Compositor

Margaret
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 85 Marmont (??) Road, Peckham
Father occupation:- Skinner & Leather Dresser

Witnesses:- James C (can't read the rest) Fleming and Jennie May Fleming


It looks as though her father and younger sister were the witnesses

Father died in 1901

from freebmd

Deaths Sep 1901 (>99%)
Winkworth John Henry 35 Wandsworth 1d 3_0


???????? is this mother's death????

Deaths Jun 1909 (>99%)
WINKWORTH Margaret 39 Wandsworth 1d 269

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
Winkworth Daisy Marion A Camberwell 1d 827

Marriages Jun 1918 (>99%)
Couldrick Harry Winkworth Croydon 2a 629
Winkworth Daisy M A Couldrick Croydon 2a 629

from ancestry

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Margaret Charlotte Lucy May Winkworth
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Aug 1893
Father's name: John Henry Winkworth
Mother's name: Margaret Mcmregoir Winkworth
Parish or Poor Law Union: Camberwell St Giles
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born:- 23 November 1892
Address:- 74 (or 44) Waterloo Street
Father occupation:- Grocer's Porter

I think this might be Margaret, called May to distingush her from mother margaret?

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
3, Foss Road Cambridge Terrace, Streatham, Wandsworth, London, England


John H Winkworth Head Married Male 25 1876 Grocers Warehouseman Old Kent Road, Surrey, England
Margaret Winkworth Wife Married Female 31 1870 - Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
May Winkworth Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Camberwell, Surrey, England
Daisy Winkworth Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Camberwell, Surrey, England
John Winkworth Son Single Male 1 1900 - Clapham, Surrey, England


Marriages Sep 1891 (>99%)
Fleming Margaret Mc Gregor Camberwell 1d 1509
Winkworth John Henry Camberwell 1d 1509