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Deborah
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13 Jun 2016 19:19 |
I believe her name is Margaret Trimble or Quills from Queenstown Ireland, Married to James Murphy also from Queenstown has a son John Murphy in America recently died in 2013. If anyone has any information I would much appreciate your help. I am a novice at this searching.
Thank you :-D
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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13 Jun 2016 19:31 |
Have you tried family search site
Can't see her on the 1911 Irish census ,this looks her on the 1901 census
Born 1886/7 though not 1896 1901 census Residents of a house 26.1 in Queen Street (Queenstown Urban No. 1, Cork) Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Horan Margaret 40 Female Head of Family R Catholic occ pedler. married Horan Ellen 14 Female Daughter R Catholic Horan Margaret 13 Female Daughter R Catholic Horan Mary 7 Female Daughter R Catholic Horan Christopher 4 Male Son R Catholic
Edit Can't be the same family as Ellen is married now but not to Murphy 1911 census
Census Years1911CorkQueenstownHarbour TerraceResidents of a house Residents of a house 10.3 in Harbour Terrace (Queenstown, Cork) Show all information Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Horan Margaret 50 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Leahy Ellen 24 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Horan Mary 18 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Leahy James 2 Male Grand Son Roman Catholi
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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14 Jun 2016 09:18 |
Did she marry in Ireland or in America ?
The marriagee cert should give some details
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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14 Jun 2016 09:46 |
A public tree on Ancetsry has this record
Ellen Horan
Birth: 1 November 1896 (1 Nov 1896) - Eire (Ireland) Marriage: 23 Apr 1917 Spouse: James Murphy F: (Name Unknown) M. Margaret Trimble
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ArgyllGran
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14 Jun 2016 10:16 |
As you have the exact DOB, does that mean you have Ellen's birth cert? What does it say? Or have you taken the date from that tree on Ancestry?
Was Margaret Trimble/Quills married to Mr Horan? What was his first name? [EDIT: for what it's worth, the tree says his name was James, but gives no proof or dates - presumably his name's on the children's Birth certs?]
Why either Trimble or Quills? Do you mean she had been married before, or are there two different Margarets in the running?
The tree shows the census records as posted above by Shirley. When did Ellen marry James Murphy, and when was the son born? Would she have had time to have been married before to Mr Leahy as suggested in the 1911 census?
[EDIT: Oh yes, just noticed the supposed date of 1917 for marriage to James Murphy ]
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ArgyllGran
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14 Jun 2016 10:29 |
I suspect that tree is badly researched, and should be taken with a large pinch of salt - the census records at least can't be the right Ellen. As Shirley has said, the age of the one on both census records is way out from 1896. (Again, where did you get her DOB from - is it from an actual record, or just from someone else's say-so?)
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ArgyllGran
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14 Jun 2016 10:35 |
Maybe the marriage of the one in the censuses (whether or not she's your Ellen ):
Ellie Horan in the Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 Name: Ellie Horan Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun, 1907 Registration district: Cork, Ireland Volume: 5 Page Number: 134 FHL Film Number: 101261 Records on Page: Name John Dowdy Thomas Leahy <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Agnes Hallahan Winifred Smith George Metcalfe Ellie Horan Mary M'Carthy John O'Leary
I know this concentration on Ellen doesn't appear to help find Margaret Trimble /Quills - but just trying to make sense of the family.
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 10:36 |
The family that Shirley put the 1901 & 1911 census for appear quite a few times in the criminal records on FMP. James Horan was accused of assaulting his wife 1901, Margaret Horan was accused of assaulting Ellen Leahy 1907.
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 10:44 |
Perhaps you mean surname Trindles?
Marriage Name: James Horan Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, 1886 Registration district: Cork, Ireland Volume: 5 Page Number: 122 FHL Film Number: 101255 Records on Page: Name James Horan Kate Keane Margaret Trindles<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Andrew Connell Daniel O'Connor John O'Brien Margaret O'Brien Lizzie O'Callaghan Ellen Murphy -------------------------------------------------
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 12:11 |
OK, so this is where the DOB came from?:
Additional information, Church Baptism Record Name: Ellen Horan Date of Birth: 01-Nov-1886 Date of Baptism: 07-Nov-1886 Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH Gender: Female County Co. Cork Denomination: Roman Catholic Father: James Horan Mother: Margaret Quills Informant 1: John Dorney Sponsor 2 / Informant 2: Mary Flynn Notes:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1312050
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ArgyllGran
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14 Jun 2016 12:26 |
So ten years out re DOB - and could therefore be the Ellen on the censuses.
Deborah, what actual records have you found to lead back to your Ellen? What do you know to be fact?
We're in danger of becoming lost in a maze of guesswork.
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 12:36 |
From what I can gather this is Ellen's 2nd marriage:
name(s) ELLEN LEAHY Marriage quarter 2 Marriage year 1917 Spouse: JAMES MURPHY Spouse's last name MURPHY District CARDIFF County Glamorganshire Country Wales Volume 11A Page 759 -----------------------------------------------------
They have children:
MURPHY CATHERINE M 1921 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales MURPHY CHRISTOPHER 1921 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales MURPHY JOHN J 1917 1917 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales MURPHY MARGARET M 1919 Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales ---------------------------------------------------------
Is this the family in US?
1940 United States Federal Census
Ireland James Murphy Head Married Male 49 1891 Eire Ellen Murphy Wife Married Female 53 1887 Wales John J Murphy Son Single Male 22 1918 Wales Margaret Murphy Daughter Single Female 19 1921 Wales Catherine Murphy Daughter Single Female 18 1922 New York Eleanor Murphy Daughter Single Female 8 1932
Street: East 94 Street House Number: 1421 Inferred Residence in 1935: New York, Kings, New York ------------------------------------------------------
Death of Eleanor- showing Mum's maiden name:
Name: Eleanor Mary Murphy [Eleanor Mary Sommers] [Eleanor Sommers] SSN: 072261329 Gender: Female Race: White Birth Date: 3 Feb 1932 Birth Place: Brooklyn Kin, New York Death Date: 1 May 1993 Father: James Murphy Mother: Ellen Horan Type of Claim: Original SSN. Notes: Jan 1950: Name listed as ELEANOR MARY MURPHY; Sep 1953: Name listed as ELEANOR MARY SOMMERS; 06 May 1993: Name listed as ELEANOR SOMMERS
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 13:16 |
It seems some of Ellen's siblings also travelled to US- have you got details on them?
Do their Birth certificates state mother as Quills or Trindles?
Christopher's birth:
First name(s) Christopher John Last name Horan Registration year 1896 Registered quarter/year Oct - Dec 1893 Registration district Cork Volume 5 Page 158 Mother's last name (original) - County Cork Country Ireland ----------------------------------------
Do you have the marriage certificate for Ellen and James Murphy?
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 14:12 |
The Baptism of Christopher John Horan is on Rootsireland- mother's surname is listed as unclear- Margaret Tringles.
On the Baptism of Ellen's sister, Margaret, mother's surname is listed as Tringle
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AustinQ
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14 Jun 2016 14:23 |
It is possible that Mother Margaret was married before.
Although she would be very young, there is this marriage in 1875:
Name: Margaret Tringle Date of Registration: 1875 Registration district: Cork, Ireland Volume: 15 Page Number: 91 FHL Film Number: 101252 Records on Page: Name Catherine Conroy Timothy Murray Hannah Fitzgerald Catherine Conroy James Brenan Margaret Trindle<<<<<<<<<<<<< Margaret Tringle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Denis O'Brien<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ellen Riordan James Hurley -----------------------------------------------------
and maybe the 1886 marriage is her listed twice?
Marriage Name: James Horan Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, 1886 Registration district: Cork, Ireland Volume: 5 Page Number: 122 FHL Film Number: 101255 Records on Page: Name James Horan Kate Keane Margaret Trindles<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Andrew Connell Daniel O'Connor John O'Brien Margaret O'Brien<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Lizzie O'Callaghan Ellen Murphy -----------------------------------------
I think to further your tree you would need the 1886 marriage certificate to see who Margaret lists as her father. - The Tringle name seems to be transcribed in all sorts of ways- Trimble/ Trimbal/Tringle/ Trindle/ Trindal all with or without an s on the end.
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Deborah
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16 Jun 2016 14:14 |
The only information I have is Ellen Horan's date of birth 1/11/1896 and James Murphy 24th of June or July 1890. They married in Cardiff on the 23/4/1917. John Murphy their son gave us this little information he had before he passed away in 2013. He lived in O'Fallon Mo 63366 Rosedale Drive America. Ellen is the sister of Margaret Brice Nee Horan of Queenstown Ireland. Thank you all for the information you have found so far. I don't have any certificates to go on.
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Deborah
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16 Jun 2016 14:23 |
Austin your information seems to be more accurate to what information we have accept the marriage certificate of Margaret Horan and Charles John Brice from COBH Parish states Margaret Horan's parents are James Horan and Margaret Trimble/Trunkles the person writing the certificate was not able to identify the surname correctly they put Trunkles but John son of Ellen states it is Trimble.
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Deborah
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16 Jun 2016 14:35 |
We visited COBH Ireland to see where Margaret Horan lived and got the marriage certificate while we was there. Margaret Horan is the sister of Ellen and my husbands grandmother . Eileen Watkins nee Brice my mother in law is the daughter of Margaret Horan and she very little of her mothers family tree. Especially as they all moved to America. James Brice and Julia Coffee where witnesses to Margaret and Charles John Brice marriage July 18th 1909 COBH Parish.
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Deborah
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16 Jun 2016 14:37 |
John Murphy son of Ellen Horan was born 3 days after she got married on the 23/4/1917.
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AustinQ
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16 Jun 2016 15:24 |
Margaret and James had several children (some died young) on all the baptisms (apart from Ellen's) the transcrption gives mother's name as Tringle Tringles Singles and Trindals. The only way I can see of progressing is to buy the 1886 marriage certificate to see who Margaret's father is.
father on all James Horan
Name: Ellen Horan Date of Birth: 01-Nov-1886 Date of Baptism: 07-Nov-1886 Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Quills
Name: Margaret Horan Date of Birth: 01-Aug-1888 Date of Baptism: 02-Aug-1888 Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Tringle
Name: Patrick Horan (died 1897) Date of Birth: 23-Jul-1890 Date of Baptism: 24-Jul-1890 Address: Queen St Mother: Margaret Trindals
Name: James Horan (possible death 1892) Date of Birth: 31-Oct-1891 Date of Baptism: 01-Nov-1891 Address: Old St. Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Singles
Name: Mary Horan Date of Baptism: 11-Dec-1892 Address: Old Street Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Tringles
Name: Daniel Horan (possible death 1896) Date of Birth: 14-Nov-1894 Date of Baptism: 18-Nov-1894 Address: Harbour Terrace Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Tringles
Name: Christopher John Horan Date of Birth: 07-Nov-1896 Date of Baptism: 08-Nov-1896 Address: Harbour Terrace Parish/District: COBH Mother: Margaret Tringles
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