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JEH123
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5 Jul 2016 20:08 |
Elsie Hall gave birth to a boy December 1934. At the time she was resident at Oakhill Home, Cheetham Hill, Manchester.
The reason for my post is because I would like to find information about Elsie's stay at the home. Did the home have records and who would I need to contact as the home no longer exists? I have already tried the Salvation Army, who replied to my email saying they only bring living relatives together.
Elsie died in Canada. She married James Mitchell Nelson in 1933. I would appreciate some ideas of who I should contact who might hold this information. Thank you in advance
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ArgyllGran
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5 Jul 2016 21:46 |
Your previous thread about this:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/records_office/thread/1008960
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ArgyllGran
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5 Jul 2016 21:50 |
No help, but interesting, maybe!
http://tinyurl.com/gtckmlr
Re men's socks.
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ArgyllGran
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5 Jul 2016 21:54 |
Some other queries about Oakhill, with answers all seeming to agree that if the Salvation Army can't help, then nobody can.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=485728.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=173307.0 (That one possibly posted by you?)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=586913.0
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ArgyllGran
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5 Jul 2016 21:55 |
SALVATION ARMY. - Commissioner Adelaide Cox, writing for the Women Social Workers, pleads for some Christmas cheer for their 2,000 sorrowful and desolate protégés: for the aged, afflicted poor, many of whom, she says, live in one room with no fire and little food: and for the neglected little ones, “poorly clad and often ill-used, who live in Slumland and are looking for Father Christmas.” Money, garments, toys, coal, or food will be most gladly received, and should be addressed to the Officer in Charge of the Oakhill Home, Cheetham Hill, or of either of the Slum Posts - 29, Alexandra Place, Rochdale Road, and 144, Greengate, Salford.
http://tinyurl.com/hadk3z2
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ArgyllGran
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5 Jul 2016 22:00 |
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/list/MH4.shtml
This maybe helpful, below??
For most of our former maternity homes (including Oakhill/Oak Hill) we do not hold any original records, and most of what we know about the women and girls who used these homes comes from a series of ledgers known as The Girls’ Statement Books. In effect these were records of discharge, and they were held centrally at our Women’s’ Social Work headquarters in Mare Street, Hackney. Because these books have survived we have two series (London and Country) running from 1886 for more than a century. Unfortunately there is one major gap in the Country series, from March 1942 to March 1948 inclusive. This means that we have no statement book entries for discharges between these dates. Since these books record discharges and not births it does mean that births that took place a few months before this period may not be recorded, while conversely that births that took place in late 1947 or early 1948 may be.
http://tinyurl.com/hnldfdd
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JEH123
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5 Jul 2016 22:07 |
Thank you for the information. I have a few leads to follow so hopefully will find something more. This time I've made a note and will make some enquiries. I'd forgotten I'd already asked about this home back in 2008. Kids are older now so I have more time on my hands.
Thanks again
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Autumnleaves
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6 Jul 2016 03:30 |
Could you have your dates mixed up ?
You say you are looking for a boy born Dec 1934 but mother married in 1933.
If she wed in 1933 then surely the 1934 boy would be her husbands child and have his name ! ?
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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6 Jul 2016 07:39 |
The marriage
So why isn't the boy registered as Nelson??
Marriages Jun 1933 Hall Elsie Nelson Castle W. 10b 710 Nelson James M Hall Castle W. 10b 710
Is this her husband ?
JAMES MITCHELL Last name NELSON Birth year 1909 Birth quarter 2 Registration month - Mother's last name - District CASTLE WARD County Northumberland Country England Volume 10B Page 408 Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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6 Jul 2016 07:53 |
!???
1939 register
37 Palatine Road , Manchester C.B., Lancashire, England Start free family tree View original imagePrint FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION Elsie Nelson 06 Sep 1908 Assistant Nurse widow
7 more people who are officially closed Jane Hanson 01 Nov 1896 Housekeeper 7 more people who are officially closed Vera Lloyd (Boyce) 09 Jul 1915 State Registered Nurse Staff No 7 more people who are officially closed Isabel Lynn (Smith) 05 Jan 1907 Assistant Nurse 7 more people who are officially closed Elizabeth M Kavanagh (Roberts) 13 Aug 1914 Assistant Nurse 7 more people who are officially closed Doreen Ward (Lamb) 16 Oct 1914 Assistant Nurse 7 more people who are officially closed Elizabeth Smeaton (Jones) 25 Mar 1916 Assistant Nurse 7 more people who are officially closed Dorothy Adderley 15 Jun 1919 Domestic Wardmaid 7 more people who are officially closed Ref: RG101/4445E/002/43 Letter Code: NJAT © Findmypast Ltd Open a closed record Request a living person's record Close an open record Report an error
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JEH123
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6 Jul 2016 17:01 |
Elsie Hall married James Mitchell Nelson in 1933. Elsie gave birth to Leslie Nelson Hall in Dec 1934. James isn't on Leslie's birth certificate. I conclude from that James isn't the Father. Hence why she went to Oakhill Home.
Leslie is still alive and he gave me the above names.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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7 Jul 2016 09:06 |
Well as she didn't name a father on the birth cert then it's highly unlikely you will find his info
Again would think she wouldn't have given that info to the hospital when having her baby
If the lad was later adopted then his adoption file may give more info
Is your friend trying to find the info on Elsie or his dad?
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JEH123
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8 Jul 2016 19:14 |
Leslie was placed in Styal Cottage Homes now a Womens prison. Leslie is my Father In Law. I have records of his admission and discharges there.
He would like to know why he was placed in the orphanage. He was 3 years old. His Mum and James visited him until he was about 8. And in 1947 they went on a ship to New York and from there travelled on to Welland, Ontario.
It's me wanting to find out more info for him. Somewhere there are living descendents of his family in Northumberland but it's finding them. Whether they knew that Leslie exists I'm not sure about but it would be nice for him to have that contact.
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malyon
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8 Jul 2016 19:37 |
it seems like james did not want him as a son
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malyon
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8 Jul 2016 20:04 |
there is another elsie hall born in castle w Northumberland could this one have given birth to leslie
Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
Hall Elsie Castle W. 10b 375
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malyon
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8 Jul 2016 20:53 |
found this for james going to u s a in 1947 with elsie she was born in lancashire
Elsie Nelson Immigration 1947 New York City, New York, United States Female Leigh Lancashire England Plane Nc 88865 James Mitchell Nelson Immigration 1947 New York City, New York, United States Male Walbottle Northd England
Births Dec 1908 (>99%)
Hall Elsie Leigh 8c 316
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Kucinta
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9 Jul 2016 20:14 |
????
Nelson Household (1 Person) 13 Hope Street , Barrow-in-Furness C.B., Lancashire, England
Elsie Nelson 15 Nov 1908 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 129 1 1 more person who is officially closed
EDIT wrong person as birthdate does not tally with travel information
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SylviaInCanada
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10 Jul 2016 05:44 |
This record is on FMP, and COULD be an answer as to why James didn't acknowledge Leslie if he was out of the country on a ship ..........
New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Transcription
First name(s) James Mitchell Last name Nelson Sex Male Age 35 Birth year 1910 Birth place British Arrival year 1945 Arrival city New York Arrival state New York Arrival country United States Ship name Raby Castle Country United States Film number 002310704 NARA roll number 6899 NARA publication number T715 Record set New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Category Travel & migration Subcategory Passenger lists Collections from United States & Canada
from image:-
Member of Crew (and also member of crew on ship's previous visit ot US) Position:- 3rd Engineer Time of Service at Sea:- 14 years <<<<<<<<< 5' 10" 163 lbs Physical abnormalities:- Joint right hand amputated
New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Transcription
First name(s) James Mitchell Last name Nelson Sex Male Birth place Walbottle Northd England Arrival year 1947 Arrival city New York Arrival state New York Arrival country United States Ship name Plane Nc 88865 Country United States Film number 002296197 NARA roll number 7460 NARA publication number T715 Record set New York Passenger Lists & Arrivals Category Travel & migration Subcategory Passenger lists Collections from United States & Canada
from image:- Elsie Nelson Home Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Wallbottle, Northumberland Date and Place of Birth:- 9 September 1908, Leigh, Lancashire Name and Address of Nearest Relative at Home:- Father, Edward Hall, 18 Dene (or Done) Terrace, Walbottle In transit to Ontario, Canada, 1 day British Passport issued July 17 1947
James Mitchell Nelson Date and Place of Birth:- June 28, 1909, Walbottle Right third finger short Nearest Relative at home:- Mother, Mrs Dorothy Nelson, 9 Richmond Terrace, Walbottle In transit to Canada, 1 day British Passport issued Aug 27 1942, at Bombay
and this must have been one of his first trips across the Atlantic ..........
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription
First name(s) JAMES Last name NELSON Gender Male Age 21 Birth year 1909 Occupation MARINE ENGINEER Departure year 1930 Departure day 29 Departure month 8 Departure port LIVERPOOL Destination port MONTREAL Destination MONTREAL Country CANADA Destination country CANADA Ship name ANDANIA Ship official number 145934 Ship master's first name A C Ship master's last name GREIG Shipping line CUNARD City LIVERPOOL Ship destination port MONTREAL Ship destination country CANADA Ship square feet 11001 Ship registered tonnage 8391 Number of passengers 272 Record set Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Category Travel & migration Subcategory Passenger lists Collections from Australia & New Zealand, United Kingdom, Ireland, United States & Canada
from image:- Passenger Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Walbottle Cabin Passenger Going to Montreal
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SylviaInCanada
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10 Jul 2016 06:23 |
Have you seen Elsie and James' marriage certificate?
If so, please can you tell us the name of her father, his occupation, and the names of witnesses?
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Kucinta
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10 Jul 2016 09:35 |
Not sure if this is a red herring, only going by the coincidence of Dene Terrace, This Edward Hall would have to be a brother rather than a father if related....EDIT unless the birth years are mistranscribed, as he is retired.
from Sylvia's post
Elsie Nelson Home Address:- 9 Richmond Terrace, Wallbottle, Northumberland Date and Place of Birth:- 9 September 1908, Leigh, Lancashire Name and Address of Nearest Relative at Home:- Father, Edward Hall, 18 Dene (or Done) Terrace, Walbottle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< In transit to Ontario, Canada, 1 day British Passport issued July 17 1947
1939 register:
Hall Household (3 People) 5 Dene Terrace , Hexham R.D., Northumberland, England
Edward Hall 14 Oct 1910 Male Raiway Foreman (Retired Married 28 1 Minnie Hall 02 Mar 1874 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 28 2 Dora Tennick (Hall) 14 Oct 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Single 28 3
HOWEVER I think the dates for Edward and Minnie are possibly wrong as they could read 10 & 14 for the year, or 90 and 94, or 70 and 74.
If this was the same family in 1911, they don't seem to have Elsie with them. The image also says 5 children born and still living, these are all accounted for on the census image:
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
6 Cotfield St Gateshead, Gateshead, Durham, England
Edward Hall Head Married Male Shed Turner Ry Loco Dept 40 1871 Cumberland Carlisle Minnie Hall Wife Married Female - 36 1875 Durham Gateshead Minnie Ann Hall Daughter Single Female - 18 1893 Durham Gateshead Ada Louisa Hall Daughter Single Female - 16 1895 Durham Gateshead John Hall Son - Male Insurance Clerk 14 1897 Durham Gateshead Walter Hall Son - Male - 12 1899 Durham Gateshead Edward Hall Son - Male - 7 1904 Durham Gateshead
I'll leave for elimination. Shame, as I was quite keen on the Dene Terrace connection.
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