Find Ancestors

Sylvia, Yes i did know the difference. We have them every year still. It is a sort of census, though not compulsory, as the 10 years census are. We recently filled our latest one in
So BIG Brother is not new really , is it? been going since 1841, only the general, public (mostly at the time illiterate) could not access it

Pauline ....

you commented

Pauline Report 20 Sep 2016 08:01

"Strange the George name missed off census 1907/1908"

-------------

Those were Electoral Roll records, not a census .... don't mistake the two!!


Not strange at all ........... it was his choice, as he would have provided the information.

Maybe he preferred to use Henry????

Thanks Chriss, looks like it was March 1903. Southawk so only 3 months old
Have not yet got out of holiday mode, so brain was not working!

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(have you checked on above, might be easier than GR)

Chris :)

Hi Guys, been away, so not been able to reply.
Re birth of George James Martin 6/12/1902 as per Mel F G. Could some-one find his death for me please, can't find on GR . I understood he died very young (pre 1911), and would like to fill in gap on tree Interesting that he was named after both Grand dads and the next son was named charles george, born 10 years later Thanks

Sylvia, He may have been , but we did not think so. Charles was born b 1912. Henry b 1917 and last son b 1922, so there is a gape though if Henry b 1917 maybe not?
Strange the George name missed off census 1907/1908

Chris you've come up with interesting info (as usual) Looks like brothers where naughty boys!! Interesting mother Mary Ann , lived with George at the end of her life, so maybe he was not so bad. Or maybe he was the richest of them, as they had a large house, a car a telephone in house , a fridge and even a TV ( though no broadcasting in the late 30's ) and he did love his Havana cigars

Guess will never know where he was in 1901

Breaking Peace > wounding, 9th January 1912

MARTIN, William, otherwise MARTIN, Mike (22, coster), JONES, John, otherwise RANDALL, Jack (24, labourer), CLIFFORD, James (25, carman), MARTIN, James Albert (27, printer), feloniously causing grievous bodily harm to Austin Greaves with intent to murder him; (second count) with intent to cause him grievous bodily harm.

HENRY BROCKMAN , manager, "Whitesmith's Arms," Crosby Row. Prisoners have been frequenters of my house since the time I have been there, April, 1910; they have come in singly and together. I also knew a brother of the Martins named George;

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t19120109-14


(looking at 1911, would say above are his Brothers)

Chris :)

1911 (Find My Past)
Mary Anne Martin Head Widow Female Private Means 51 1860 Somers Town
James A Martin Son Married Male Worker (Printers Labourer) 26 1885 Bermondsey
William Martin Son Single Male Waterside Labourer 22 1889 Bermondsey
Alfred Joseph Martin Son Single Male Carman 20 1891 Bermondsey
Caroline Martin Daughter Married Female At Home 19 1892 Bermondsey
Alice Martin Daughter In Law Married Female At Home 25 1886 Pimlico
James George Martin Grandchild Single Male School 6 1905 Bermondsey
Florence Caroline Martin Grandchild Single Female School 3 1908 Bermondsey
George Martin Grandchild - Male School 1 1910 Bermondsey
John Welch Son In Law Married Male Stojker 21 1890 Bermondsey
Ivy C Welch Grandchild - Female - 0 1911 Bermondsey
Address 147 Weston Street B Dsey S E
Parish Bermondsey
Census reference RG14 PN1867 RG78 PN67 RD24 SD2 ED2 SN73


1901 (Find My Past)
Mary Martin Head Widow Female 41 1860 Coster Camden Town, Middlesex, England
James Martin Son - Male 14 1887 Printers Boy Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Alice Martin Daughter - Female 14 1887 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
William Martin Son - Male 13 1888 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Alfred Martin Son - Male 10 1891 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Caroline Martin Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Street Porlock Place
Parish Bermondsey
County London
Municipal ward 1
Registration district St Olave Southwark
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 388
Folio 132
Page 40


Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Carr Alice St. Olave 1d 323
MARTIN James Albert St. Olave 1d 323

(possible for Brother, image on London Marriages, Ancestry. Father, George. Deceased, occ. General Dealer. Witnesses were George and Alice Martin)


Edits (somebody else below researching, 2009)

http://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/general_topics/thread/1152742

Looking at the Electoral Rolls for London

George Henry Martin was at 32 Porlock Place (as per George James baptism in 1902) until 1903, then at 11 Porlock Place in 1904 and 1905. It seems he was then at 26 Crosby Row in 1906, moving to 40 Crosby Row 1907 to 1901. Then 34 Crosby Row in 1910 and 1911

The majority of women did not have the vote at that time, so Alice is not shown

George Henry Martin 1903 Southwark Bermondsey 32 Porlock place

George Henry Martin 1904 Southwark Bermondsey 11 Porlock place

George Henry Martin 1905 Southwark Bermondsey 11 Porlock place

George Henry Martin 1906 Southwark Bermondsey 26 Crosby row

Henry Martin 1907 Southwark Bermondsey 40 Crosby row

Henry Martin 1908 Southwark Bermondsey 40 Crosby row

George Henry Martin 1909 Southwark Bermondsey 40 Crosby

George Henry Martin 1910 Southwark Bermondsey 34 Crosby row

George Henry Martin 1911 Southwark Bermondsey 34 Crosby row



Not showing from 1912 to 1918



Do you know if George Henry served in WW1?? If he did, and IF his records survive, then they might show any previous service.

He was young enough to have to serve in WW1 .......... my maternal granfather was born in 1875, was married and had 3 children by 1915, but still served from 1915 until March 1919.

Thanks Catherine. I tried to search only 1 George no middle initial came up, the others had a different middle name. Was not him., but do not have access to FMP now. Is there anywhere that you can look at the actual mens records? I did find the army record of another rely, but that was WW1, which proved who he was as gave next of kin, but we really do not think he was in the army

Thank you ArgyllGran I thought I may have needed some new glasses for a moment.
:-)

Pauline, if you go back to my earlier post about the Boer War, you will see that the regiment that I suggested was created in 1899 especially for the Boer War and was a light horse regiment, doing a lot of reconnaissance and delivering messages etc. so they would have needed men who worked with horses to make up the regiment. It was disbanded in 1901 which whould have meant that it was only in being for the duration of the war so "if" George was recruited he would have been away for the 1901 census and back in time to have another child in 1902.

Of course it is just a theory but worth keeping on file if he doesn't turn up anywhere else.

If George James was born dec 1902, George Snr must have come back by March 1902, , and the 1901 census was April , he could not have been away for too long, as Eliza was born 1900. Unless he was just missing for the census period. BUT that does not explain why Alice was living with her mother.

Thanks for your help, so far. We do not think he was ever in the forces.
MEL thanks for the info re George James , he was the son that died (in infancy date not known)
Annie Louisa not one of them.
The family where , Mary, Eliza, George, Alice, Nellie, Lily, louise , there where 3 son's born later. Charles George, henry, Ernie. (as per AG states)
The question was where was he in 1901?? Did think he could have been in prison??but not sure. That would make sense of Alice being with he mother in 1901
i have all the info of the family , just the puzzle of 1901 whereabouts!!
Incidentally George H mother was Mary Ann(e) Bourne, if that helps she died in Camberwell in 1937, living with George and Alice.
George was a bit of a chancer I believe, finish up as a Turf accountant (now Bookies)

Mel and Catherine -
I'm looking at the 1901 on Ancestry, and can confirm the image says Alice was married (M).

What census on where are you looking as on Ancestry it definately says Wid.

By the way on baptisms for their children George is a builder on one and a bricky on another so he could have been working anywhere in the country and missed the census for 1901.

Name: Mary Ann Elizabeth Martin
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 22 Jan 1899
Father's name: George Martin Occ. Carmen<<<<<
Mother's name: Alice Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 42 Crosby Rd


Name: Eliza Louisa Martin
BORN 9th July
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 5 Aug 1900
Father's name: George Martin Occ. BUILDER<<<<<<
Mother's name: Alice Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 2 Union Place

Name: George James Martin

BORN 6th Dec 1902
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Dec 1902
Father's name: George Henry Martin Occ Bricklayers Labourer<<<<<<
Mother's name: Alice Edith Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Paul
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 32, Porlock Place

Name: Annie Louisa Martin
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Jul 1906 ( 15 or 16 or 18 July)
Father's name: George Martin Occ. Electric Lighter <<<<<<<
Mother's name: Alice Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address 36, Crosby Rd

Just checked 1901 original image and it is noted that Alice is (M), so married not widowed.

On the 1901 census where Alice is with her mother she is down as a Widow?

from another web site:-

Soldiers of the Queen in the Second Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902

NAMES/INITIALS NO. RANK UNIT/REGIMENT SOURCE DOCUMENT LINK

MARTIN, George 21070 Brabant's Horse WO126/6-14 Extract (Kevin Asplin) Roll Images
MARTIN, George 21070 Trooper 2nd Brabant's Horse WO127/3 Extract (Colin Roe) Roll Images (abw.com) #
MARTIN, George 33614 Trooper Roberts' Horse WO127/19 Extract (Ted Beard) Roll Images
MARTIN, George 4577 Trooper Roberts' Horse WO127/19 Extract (Ted Beard) Roll Images


As George was a Carman, then he likely worked with horses, and the above were Troopers in Roberts' Horse Regiment.

On 5 November 1899, Brabant raised the Light Horse regiment known as Brabant's Horse. The top strength of the unit was 600, all ranks, including South African colonials, Australians, British, Canadians. The unit saw much action against Boer commandos. Brabant's Horse was disbanded in Cape Town on 31 December 1901.

Maybe?

First name(s) George
Last name Martin
Service number 3776
Rank Private
Regiment 5th (Princess Charlotte Of Wales's) Dragoon Guards
Literary references The Green Horse in Ladysmith: Lt
Col
St
John Gore 158
Notes The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Orange Free State, Transvaal, Elandslaagte, Defence of Ladysmith
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

or

First name(s) George
Last name Martin
Service number 3116
Rank Private
Regiment 1st (Royal) Dragoons
Literary references The National Archives The National Archives WO97. Regular army service papers.
Regular army service papers
/6347
Notes The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Orange Free State, Transvaal, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith, Laing's Nek, South Africa 1901
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

Probably not this one either:-

First name(s) George H
Last name Martin
Service number 6522
Rank Corporal
Regiment 27 (Devon) Company 7 Battalion Imperial Yeomanry
Other regiments/units Unit: served with 26 Battalion Imperial Yeomanry, Rank: Sergeant, Number: 6522
Rolls WO100/356 page 142
Literary references The National Archives The National Archives WO128. Imperial Yeomanry, Soldiers' Documents, South African War.
Imperial Yeomanry
Soldiers' Documents
South African War
Notes Not entitled to KSA.
The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Diamond Hill, Cape Colony, Orange Free State
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

or this one

First name(s) George
Last name Martin
Service number 2643
Rank Private
Regiment 2 Battalion The Gordon Highlanders
Rolls WO100/203
Literary references The National Archives The National Archives WO97. Regular army service papers.
Regular army service papers
Notes The Queen's South Africa (QSA) Medal Clasps: Belfast, Laing's Nek
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

Thought it was Carman but wanted to make sure. Thanks



This is the only G H Martin I can see on FMP for the Boer War

First name(s) G H
Last name Martin
Service number 6283
Rank Private
Regiment 2 Battalion The East Yorkshire Regiment
Rolls WO100/176 page 76
WO100/176 page 122
Notes [The National Archives WO100. The QSA and KSA campaign medal rolls.] Also initial 'JH'
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Boer Wars
Collections from Great Britain

...............he's in a Yorkshire regiment so probably not him.