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Thank you Potty

I have found an address for James,s living relatives in Potty,s Military archives I will try and see if I can find out more about them Thank you nellie

Erin - I'm not that familiar with Irish weddings, but RC marrs in Quebec quite often have just one or 2 readings of the banns, with a dispensation for not doing the full 3 readings.

Hello mgnv.....Where you been hiding lately...???

Much the same as here ..it was all change in 1983 with the introduction of "Code of Canon Law " allowing more flexibility by the Bishops Conferences to determine what was appropriate for their own areas.

You need to be a Doctor of Divinity to understand it all..

So that would mean that Mary Mcmanus was not catholic but she and James Morrison were still allowed to marry ..

Nellie....If you look at your post 13 Dec 16.09 relating to the details of the marriage of James Morrison and Mary McManus you will see they are both RC at the time of their marriage therefore would not require a Dispensation on the grounds of one or the other being Non Catholic.
The Dispensation had to have been granted on other grounds.
What mgnv and myself were discussing in the above posts was the Dispensation rules relating to calling of the Banns.
I cannot get to see the image of the Marriage as the Register for the year in question is not available on line. The reason for granting a Dispensation is usually noted in the Church Register but not necessarily on the page where the actual marriage is recorded.
Can the person who has Mary in her tree not shed any light on the Dispensation ?

Thank you Eringobragh I have sent her a few messages since the first contact but as of yet i have not had a reply but I will keep trying Thank you nellie

Nellie...What prompted you to contact her in the first place ?....Do you know who else is in her tree...?

It's always nice to see an example, even if it's in French - this is an 1860 marr from Saint-Jean-Baptiste in Quebec City:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8993-N96W-2?mode=g&i=42&wc=9RLX-GPN%3A17585101%2C16769902%2C32351002&cc=1321742
Even if it's over 50 y since I took my GCE in French, I can see in lines 1 thru 5, a disening of (the calling of) two banns of marriage was accorded by some official, and only the proclamation of the 3rd bann was made.

Erin - I do have a doctorate, but not in Divinity, so I suppose I'ld only understand half of it. 1983 is interesting. I know that until 1898 in England, non-conformists were not authorized to keep official marr registers (except for jews, quakers, and registrars), so a non-conformist marr would need a refistrar to attend with his official marr rego for the couple to sign. After 1898, non-conformists could apply to be authorized, but I'd noticed RCs seemed not to apply until 1980-ish for the most part. I suppose this is reflected in you post of "15 Dec 2016 20:21"

Here's an 1838 example:
using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1838
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MCCANN George ASPINALL Margaret Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/1/50

Using http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ for the church's unofficial rego:
Marriage: 23 Jun 1838 St John RC, Wigan, Lancs.
[unnamed] McCann -
[unnamed] Aspinall -
Groom's Parents: Samuelis McCann, civitatis Wigan & Brigittae
Bride's Parents: Jacobi Aspinall, [of Wigan] & Mariae
Witness: Patricio McArdal, [of Wigan]; Esther Jackson, [of Wigan]
Married by: Hen. Segrave Miss. Apos.
Notes: [Bride's and groom's names not recorded. Here their surnames are taken from
their parents]
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1840, Page 40
Source: Original register at LRO

In England, the church's unofficial rego's nearly always differ (except in recent times, I suspect) from the official m.cert, as the RC church usually latinized the names (and possibly other text). They can also differ in info content, as we see above, where the couple are not named, but their mothers' fornames are given.

I found her on the tree matches and sent her a message Nellie

Nellie..... Do you know who else was in the tree..?? What site was it on...?

mgnv.....Thank You for the information.....!

What is your Doctorate...?

It was on this site I searched Mary Mcmanus I looked through the tree matches and just sent a message and she got back to me with their marriage details . There are lots of Mcmanus,s but a lot of them are hidden and the one,s I could see did not match .

Erin -

Ph.D. in Probability and Statistics, University of California at Berkeley, 1973;
(Thesis: A stochastic model of the mechanism governing the distribution of lengths of chains in bacterial populations).

The bacterium of primary interest was Yersinia pestis. Plague is endemic in the SW USA - last year, there were 11 cases coming from AZ, CA, CO, NM, OR, with 3 fatalities. Usually, there are less than 10 cases p.a. CDC says untreated mortality for bubonic plague ranges from 66%-93%, whilst it is 16% for treated cases.

It wasn't really of concern to me which bacterium I was modelling, although my data was for Yersinia pestis.
My objective was to propose a mechanism for chain formation, model it mathematically, and study how the length distribution varied over time.
A fairly simple model fitted the data well, except that the data had too many chains of length 1, i.e., unchained bacteria.

mgnv....Absolutely fascinating !!!
For me it raised many questions as to
a) What caused the increase in notified cases ?
b) What % of the reported cases were Regional Specific ?
c) Why the discrepancy in Mortality Rates...varying between 66%-93%

Sorry Nellie for highjacking your thread...!!

No problem Eringobragh

Nellie......I am sure we wont do it again...!! in a way you indirectly started it through the discussion re Dispensations...!!!

Im just glad I could help lol

Nellie - apologies for the hijack.

Erin -
a) https://www.cdc.gov/plague/resources/plagueecologyus.pdf
In recent decades, the number of cases has ranged between 1-17 p.a.
I'd always thought the variability was down to the number of people who poked dead chipmonks - a bit too simplistic, however.
I was unaware of the climatic factors, although I should have guessed.

b) 9 of the 11 were region specific - one other case was contracted in CA, within the SW USA, but showed up when he returned home to GA.
Oregon is at the edge of the SW USA, but it extends into the NW USA - it didn't say where in OR they got the disease.

c) I think these were world-wide figures, so I wasn't surprized abt the variability.

I think the current mortality rate for measles gets up to 10$ in malnourished Africans.
As you may know, it's generally thought that measles is the human form of the cattle disease rinderpest.
It really only got to be measles abt 1150 AD - there were some earlier outbreaks before it was properly humanized, which no doubt gave some immunity to the populace in Europe and the middle east.
However, when the disease was introduced to a region with no previous exposure to any form of the disease (like the Americas), the results were devastating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles says:
In 1529, a measles outbreak in Cuba killed two-thirds of those natives ... Two years later, measles was responsible for the deaths of half the population of Honduras,

I've often heard quoted that a general mortality of 75%-90% was caused by introduced European diseases, primarly smallpox, measles anf flu.
Sometimes all one knows is some explorer like Champlain camr thru some area and commented on the existence of a large well-established village of a thousand people, and when some other explorer came thru that village a few years later, the village was deserted.
Often, oral-tradition is a bit weak on disease details, so we can't say what killed them.
That phenomenon can't be unknown to you - sometimes an event is so traumatic, no one wants to talk about it.
It's rather telling that nothing much was written about the potato famine until 1962, and then a very good history of it "The Great Hunger: Ireland: 1845-1849" was written - by an Englishwoman!! - Cecil Woodham-Smith: I suppose it was just too painful even a century later for Irish historians.


Regarding the difference in the virulence of difft strains, so if you got H3N7 flu instead of H1N1 flu, you'ld just have to cut your 5km morning run down to 3knm for a week and stick a packet of tissues in your pocket on the way to work. Really, you can't be suprized at that (even if I made it up).

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In the USA, the most lethal wild animals are the several deer species - they cause around 300 fatalities p.a., nearly all related to road traffic accidents.
Of course, if it's a moose with 700 lbs of carcase at windshield height supported on spindley legs, that's not really a surprise, but a large fraction are down to attemped avoidance.
I. personally, think you much more liable to hit something driving at night in Oz. There's roos all over the verges, and when startled, they just hop down the road in front of you. Much more dangerous are cattle grazing in the verges in the north, and camels in the red-centre.
The nearest I came to hitting a large animal was missing an emu just after dusk by abt 30cm.

Hi Yes Eringobragh I have read that one to it is also where i got the name and address for a relative of James daughter Hannah Thank you Nellie