Find Ancestors

This is getting confusing. Pimlico is in Westminster, so that James could be the child. Haven't been able to find a death for James Sr., but I have been filling in christenings and burials for children and found two more children for Abel and Rebecca, children who died before any census. So I am very pleased.

Most of the work on the more recent generations of this line was done 2003.-2008. I was only able to find those two children on Ancestry, but all on Find My Past.

By the way, I had forgotten that Maria Mead didn't marry until after had had three children. I was surprised to see that they were registered as Brigsden so the father must have registered himself. Won't spend the money but I am curious as to whether the mother was recorded as Maria Brigsden formerly Mead or just Maia Mead. They didn't have the children baptized until after their marriage.

Thank you all for the continued work.

(quick version, what do you think, not a lot of time at moment!, but see below)

Chris :)

1891
G Block Peabody Buildings, St Matthews Street, Westminster, St George Hanover Square, London, England
James Mead Head Married Male 30 1861 Hotel Porter Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Hannah Mead Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Holloway, Middlesex, England
James Mead Son - Male 3 1888 Scholar Westminster, Middlesex, England
Thomas Mead Son - Male 1 1890 - Westminster, Middlesex, England


London Marriages, for both below, have an Ellen Roberts as witness (no idea who she is, but coincidence?)

Marriages Mar 1886 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Brigden Thomas John Lambeth 1d 505
MEAD Maria Lambeth 1d 505

(Father Abel, Deceased, and she is living with him 1871, after Death of her Parents)


Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------
Crowsley Hannah Lambeth 1d 808
Mead James Lambeth 1d 808

(him the one being with James/Ann/1871 perhaps, on above says Father James Deceased)

Edits (although looking at Marriages over pages she is on most, lol, so probably to do with Parish)

Not that it helps, but did wonder if Lamb was short for Lambeth and perhaps the Suffolk was a mistake?

Perhaps Ann in 1881??

Name: Ann Mead
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Christ Church, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Southwark St George Martyr
County/Island: London
Street address: 15 Willmott Buildings
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Seamstress
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 3a
Piece: 521 Folio: 93 Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Mead 39

Well looks like him below...

Chris :)

Deaths Mar 1932 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Crisp James E 72 Romford 4a 562


Burial Register summary

Crisp James Edgar
Burial date 03 February 1932
Location Havering

https://www.deceasedonline.com/


Does Charlotte have any more info. on James Mead and Ann at all?...(apart from Rebecca Rawlings who married Abel Read)

Maybe I'm just confusing things!

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Main Road, East Horndon, Billericay, Essex, England

James M Crips Head Single Male 31 1860 House Painter Raydon, Suffolk, England
Annie M Crips Mother Widow Female 49 1842 House Keeper To Son Raydon, Suffolk,
John Corcoran Boarder - Male 12 1879 Scholar Hackney, Middlesex, England
William Barnes Boarder - Male 8 1883 Scholar Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Elsie F Carter Boarder - Female 4 1887 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Is she, hadn't worked on James, but back to square one then...

Not seeing her and James Mead after 1871 not helping things...

Chris :)

I don't think it's right- That Ann is still listed as Crisp on the 1901 census living with her son James.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
21, Stockland Road, Romford, Essex, England

James Crisp Head Single Male 40 1861 House Painter & Paperhanger Raydon, Suffolk,
Annie Crisp Mother Widow Female 59 1842 - Raydon, Suffolk,
Elsie F Carter Adopted Daughter Single Female 14 1887 - Marylebone, Middlesex,

No idea on that AQ...

Chris :)

I'm still not understanding!

Why would Ann leave her son James Edgar Crisp with her Gran, and marry James to live with another child James A Mead??

First name(s) James Edgar King
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1859
Baptism date 17 Aug 1859
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Relationship son
Residence Raydon
County Suffolk

Lol AQ, yes sort of looks confusing!, but that is the Ann (with her Grandmother) who we think Married James Mead...(Grandmother in Lambeth 1851, with Son Edgar Crisp, and Elizabeth Butcher is looking after Ann then, in Raydon)

Asenath Crisp, being mother of Ann, and Daughter of Elizabeth Crisp, Sister of Edgar Crisp...

Chris :)

(I think!)

Edits (haven't looked at that Grandson James, but presume this is his Birth below)

CRISP, JAMES EDGAR KING -
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in SAMFORD Volume 04A Page 528

I'm a bit confused as to what is going on, but this is the James from the 1861 census

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England

Elizabeth Crisp Head - Female 74 1797 - Suffolk, England
James Edgar Crisp Great Grandson - Male 11 1860 - Suffolk, England
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Upper Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England

Elizabeth Crisp Head Married Female 62 1799 School Mistress Polstead, Suffolk,
Ann Crisp Granddaughter Unmarried Female 20 1841 Sempstress Raydon, Suffolk
James Crisp Grandson - Male 1 1860 - Raydon, Suffolk, England

Well the 1851 where Ann is with Elizabeth Butcher, her Grandmother is in Lambeth with Son Edgar Crisp, notes on 1861, living with him is a cousin, Naomi Butcher (1830)...

Those particular Westminster Baptisms, are also on Ancestry, London.


http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(above is usually good for Suffolk, but nothing Raydon/Layham)


Couldn't see James Mead after 1871...

Chris :)

(oh, just to add, notes second marriage 1852 of Edgar Crisp, spouse looks to have connections with the Thomas Cook Hills, that the Hariett Crisp Marries in 1859!, probably all relate!, so perhaps Layham and Raydon would have featured with Ann, don't suppose she was ever told about her mothers 1841 time in Essex, lol (that wasn't too far from Raydon)
She might have stayed with Edgar at some time perhaps, in London, he and wife were witnesses at 1864 Marriage of Asenath!. so perhaps Layham was in her memory, who knows!...)


(and for that Naomi, below)

Suffolk Baptism Index 1538-1911 Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Naomi
Last name Butcher
Baptism year 1830
Baptism date 11 Feb 1830
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon


Edits (added Maria Mead)

Westminster Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Maria
Last name Mead
Birth year 1848
Baptism year 1848
Baptism date 19 Nov 1848
Father's first name(s) Edward (Occ. Brewers Servant)
Mother's first name(s) Rebecca
Parish St Margaret, Westminster
(Abode, Paradise Row)


Marriages Mar 1886 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
Brigden Thomas John Lambeth 1d 505
MEAD Maria Lambeth 1d 505

(Abel Mead Deceased)

I haven't found them either after the 1871 census

P.S.

I haven't found any of the three after 1871 whereas I find his brother John and some of family all the way through 1891. Can anyone find them?

Thank you all,

I think the answer is here, but I'll have to go back and do some diagramming tp be sire which is the real one.

Sylvia, It does seem reasonable that Layham is the original of Lamb.

Shirley and Chris - I really like the one with Ann as a grandau of Elizabeth with child James. I am amazed at how much you both found with what I had to go on. Had given up trying to find without any idea where Lamb was; although I did think James (the child) might have been hers.alone.

Chris - Also thank you for demonstrating that Find My Past has the Westminster baptisms as have James' siblings and cousins with just census info.

I won't mark this answered until I have a chance to really determine if you have found her. Am doing some Belgium for a client so will probably work on this again on Saturday or Sunday. In the meantime, someone may add something more.

I have several others where I seem to be at a dead end. Will be adding one periodically.

Thank you again

Chris posted at 8:56 am

"Layham is a small village and a civil parish in southern Suffolk, England, situated between the town of Hadleigh and the neighbouring village of Raydon."


I wonder if it is possible that Ann said she was born in "Layham", and her Suffolk accent made it sound like "laaam", and the enumerator put down what he THOUGHT she'd said

Lamb

??????

There is no such place as 'Lamb' in Suffolk !!

Dea Xxx

can't find a birth for james a mead with mother crisp in GRO

England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription

First name(s) Abel
Last name Mead
Marriage year 1826
Marriage date 14 Feb 1826
Marriage place Eaton Bray
Spouse's first name(s) Rebecca
Spouse's last name Rawlings
County Bedfordshire


Westminster Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) James
Last name Mead
Birth year 1840
Baptism year 1840
Baptism date 09 Aug 1840
Father's first name(s) Abel (Occ. Labourer)
Mother's first name(s) Rebecca
Parish St Margaret, Westminster
(Abode, Paradise Row)


(above also on Ancestry, London)

(also William same time)

Chris :)

1861 (Find My Past)
Asneath Crisp Servant Unmarried Female 38 1823 Cook Raydon, Suffolk, England
Linkfield Lane
Parish Reigate Foreign
County Surrey
Parliamentary borough Reigate
Registration district Reigate
Enumeration district 4
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 442
Folio number 65
Page number 8


1871 (Find My Past)
Thomas Flack Head - Male 63 1808 - Middlesex, England (Carpenter)
Asenath Flack Wife - Female 50 1821 - Suffolk (Raydon) England
Street Lillie Road Richmond Place
Parish Fulham
Town Fulham
County London, Middlesex
Registration district Kensington
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 70
Folio 77
Page 49


Deaths Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
FLACK Asenath 58 Fulham 1a 193


Burial Register summary
FLACK ASENATH
Burial date 16 December 1878
Location Kensington and Chelsea

https://www.deceasedonline.com/


(mother Elizabeth on all Census, Raydon except 1851, Lambeth with Son, Edgar Samuel. 2 marriages for him, Ancestry, London)


Deaths Sep 1878 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
CRISP Elizabeth 81 Samford 4a 388

Chris :)


(then as Shirley posted above, also on 1861 was below one!)


Or this one with a brother George
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lower Street, Raydon, Samford, Suffolk, England
John Crisp Head Unmarried Male 20 1841 Ag Lab Suffolk, England Transcription
George Crisp Brother - Male 17 1844 Ag Lab Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription
Ann Crisp Sister - Female 18 1843 - Raydon, Suffolk, England Transcription


(not seeing another Ann Baptism Raydon, did notice below, both done together, if later)


First name(s) Ann
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1872
Baptism date 05 May 1872
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Harriet
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship dau
Residence Raydon


First name(s) George
Last name Crisp
Baptism year 1872
Baptism date 05 May 1872
Parish St Mary
Place Raydon
Father's first name(s) John
Mother's first name(s) Harriet
Father's occupation Labourer
Relationship son
Residence Raydon


(looks to be George below perhaps, for 1871)

Marriages Mar 1870 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
Coulson Susannah Samford 4a 745
Crisp George Samford 4a 745


Layham...(if mistaken for Lamb)

(these below are on 1851, think Ann on 1861 might have been 10, not 18 perhaps, looking at image)


1851 (Find My Past)
Robert Crisp Head Married Male 45 1806 Baliff Farmers Suffolk, England
Harriett Crisp Wife Married Female 40 1811 - Suffolk (Layham)England
John Crisp Son - Male 10 1841 Ag Lab Suffolk (Layham) England
George Crisp Son - Male 7 1844 - Raydon, Suffolk, England
Jane Crisp Daughter - Female 4 1847 Scholar Raydon, Suffolk, England
Ann Crisp Daughter - Female 0 1851 (9mths) - Raydon, Suffolk, England
Street Lower Street
Parish Raydon
County Suffolk
Registration district Samford
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1798
Folio 149
Page 19


CRISP, ANN (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in SAMFORD Volume 12 Page 441


CRISP, GEORGE (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in SAMFORD HUNDRED Volume 12 Page 398


CRISP, JOHN (PORLEY)
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in COSFORD Volume 12 Page 339


Suffolk Marriage Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Robert
Last name Crisp
Marriage year 1830
Marriage date 16 Jan 1830
Marriage place Layham
Spouse's first name(s) Harriet
Spouse's last name Porley
County Suffolk

(not sure why name as John on Baptisms above!, if them)


Death for Robert 1856 (also in newspaper, accident) 1859 Marriage for Hariett/Thomas Hills.


Raydon is a village and civil parish in Suffolk, England. Located around two miles south-east of Hadleigh, it is part of Babergh district. The parish also includes the hamlets of Lower Raydon and The Woodlands.

Layham is a small village and a civil parish in southern Suffolk, England, situated between the town of Hadleigh and the neighbouring village of Raydon.

(above info. from google)