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Thanks AustinQ! You did a great job deciphering considering how bad the handwriting was!!! At least we have another snippet of his life. Must have been hectic having 2 families!!! Its a big secret to keep and alot to work around, well i guess he failed in the end as he was charged for his bigamy.

Thanks to you all for your help I greatly appreciate your time :-)

I can now view the marriage cert and confirm the record I posted is for the correct man.

I can't read all of it but what I can read says:

Driver 0864?3
? R? Park
attached 38(or 5)2 company
Army Service Corps
?elagraph ?

Not much help!!!
-------------------------------------

The T4/ prefix on his military number indicates he was Horse Transport:

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/army-number-prefixes.html
--------------------------------------------

I know it doesn't really look like it- but I suspect the second line is 'fourth Reserve Park'

Thanks for that Kathleen, I thought it was just me who thought the marriage certificate was quite terrible writing!! Lol! I started researching the medal he got and I think from what I have read so far it was one for all allies could he have been from Canada or USA? Maybe thats how he kept the first wife secret? Although the British Soldiers were awarded the same Medal. He certainly really is a secretive fellow! Thanks everyone for your help it is greatly appreciated :-)

You have all given me more information than I had before. Thank you :-)

As Findmypast only has his medal cards it would seem that his service records were among the 70% that were destroyed by fire.

The close up image of his profession on the birth certificate definitely says Ex Private in ASC (Army Service Corps). On the marriage certificate where there is a lot of writing (terrible writing in my opinion) the second last line says Army Service Corps. Just cannot make out the rest of it.

Kath. x

Thanks AustinQ that is interesting. The exact date is 4th of April 1917 for the marriage. I do vaguely remember someone in the family thought he may have been in the Army. Sorry the links don't work. I have put the images in my keepsafe and made them public but it seems you have found him! Thank you so much. Is there anywhere to view his military papers? I was wondering if they mentioned his first wife at all, surely she would have been next of kin? Although looking at the discharge date he had married my great gran before he was discharged.

Thanks again I will look into his Army service.
Have a great day :-)

I don't think the link works.

There is this John (ASC- Army Service Corps):

UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Name: John Lyle
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Driver
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Army Service Corps
Regimental Number: T4/086483
Previous Units: R.A.S.C. T4/086483 Driver.


You don't give the exact date of the marriage, but this man was discharged as no longer fit for service on 20th May 1917. Which perhaps fits with being in service at the time of marriage, but then being ex ASC in 1918.

Here is a close up of the marriage cert. I hope it works


http://www.genesreunited.com.au/keepsafe/asset/details/49430835

Thanks :-)

Hi All,

Would you mind letting me know if the link works please? I will post a close up of wedding cert too

http://www.genesreunited.com.au/keepsafe/asset/details/49430817

Thanks :-)

Thanks Kath, I will try to do that :-) I am usually not too bad at deciphering old handwriting but the marriage certificate has so much in a small space it is extremely hard! Lol!! I will try to get the images in so you can all have a look :-) Thanks again for your help

There would not have been a divorce as because he committed bigamy then the marriage was not valid so Ellen would have still been single and free to marry again.

You could put a copy of the marriage certificate in your "keepsafe", make it public so anyone can view it and post a link to the image on here then people could have a look and try to decipher it for you.

Kath. x

Hi again,
I have just found a copy of Emma's birth cert that a relative sent me a copy of. Emma was born 12 Rotherhithe New Road Sept 1918. John's occupation was Laborer at Cattle Market Ex Pte ASC. Not sure of the 3 letters they are a little difficutl to read. Does that help any? Thanks so much to all of you for your help and patience. I wonder if I post pics of the pieces of the certificates on Facebook whether someone may be able to decipher better than I can!! Lol! :-)

Hi All again, I have been trying to decipher John's rank or proffession. I have not seen so much writing in such a small space!! I can make ot the word "attached" then there are a couple of other words then "army" then a few more words after that. I will keep trying. It is not the clearest of copies but I will see how I go :-)

Mind you he alsosays he is a bachelor on the certificate and that was proven untrue when he was chared with bigamy. When it was proven he was a bigamist would that have annulled the marriage to Ellen or would there have to be a divorce?

Thanks again for all your help if I manage to decipher anymore I will let you all know

Thanks so much :-)

hi Everyone thanks for the help. A reative sent me a photocopy of Ellen & Johns marriage cert. John's father is also John Lyle (deceased) and was a Coal miner. There is so much writing in the part for John's rank and proffession that I am having lots of trouble reading it. I will try to decipher some words as I know that will help. It also says he is a bachelor, which was untrue! lol!! He would not have been charged with bigamy otherwise!! If I decipher John's profession I will let you all know.
Thanks again :-)

Constituency: P C of Kent, Maidstone Division
Year: 1931
Season: -
Register type: Parliamentary County
Polling district or place: East Barming
County: Kent

On her own at 7 Heath Grove.

She dies in 1960. Lyle Letitia 1880 1960 1960 Deaths & burials Maidstone, Kent, England

She is here in 1920.

Constituency: P C of Kent, Maidstone Division
Year: 1920
Season: Spring
Register type: Parliamentary County
Polling district or place: King Street
County:Kent

Hale, Joseph
136
Hale, Alice Margaret
136
Hale, Sydney John
134
Hale, Jane
134
Lyle, Letitia ,
134

Wondered about this as a first marriage:

Marriages Sep 1912
Hale Letitia Lyle Maidstone 2a 2025
Lyle John Hale Maidstone 2a 2025

Two children born.

Letitia appears without John 1918- 1919 on the electoral register at 15 Crondace Road, Fulham. (I don't see her after 1919).

Letitia listed as widowed in 1939 :

36 Heath Grove , Maidstone M.B., Kent, England

Letitia Lyle 25 Aug 1880 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Gordon Lyle 20 Mar 1915 Male Electrician Mental Hospital Single
Frederick Norton 17 Apr 1904 Male Motor Coach Driver Married
Thomas P Burke (Burk) 27 Nov 1910 Male Motor Coach Driver Married

I note Emma was born in Bermondsey 1918.

This is likely Ellen and John on the electoral register:

1918
12 Rotherhithe New Road
Ellen Lyle
John Lyle
John Walker
Lydia Walker

1920
12 Rotherhithe New Road
Ellen Lyle
John Lyle
Lydia Walker
---------------------------------------------

Ellen in 1939:

Brown Household 2 Ghyll Road , Hailsham R.D., Sussex, England

Charles Brown 09 Apr 1889 Male General Labourer Married
Closed record
Ena (Ellen) E Brown 24 Jan 1922 Female Domestic Single
Closed record
Ellen S Brown 16 Mar 1884 Female Unpaid Home Duties Married
Emma Firman 22 Dec 1851 Female Unpaid Home Duties Widowed
Closed record

and who his father was

Unless he returned to his wife?? Unlikely though.

There is another short article Globe - Thursday 29 July 1920- about a London company director (from Australia) that fled the country to avoid his debts. It doesn't give any other details, and I haven't looked further- but I was wondering what John's occupation was on his marriage to Ellen?

so a different man !