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But you aren't considering taking the advice offered, Margaret?

Contacting the Joe Loss Orchestra fan club ...

Contacting Elton John (I was quite serious, since his father worked with Larry Gretton, and, if nothing else, he might well know Larry's full/real name or age) ...

Contacting the Ancestry tree owner with Harry Gretton, 1921, in their tree ...


My guess is still that you are looking at a family legend that grew up around the name, but the connection, if any, is extremely remote.

thank you for all your help I will keep searching something may just turn up unexpected thank you .margaret

Herbert Gretton, father of Eliza, in 1871 in Carlton

William Gretton 38 born Bingham
Mary A Gretton 32
John Gretton 14
Robert Gretton 12
> Herbert Gretton 9
Alice Gretton 6
Edwin Gretton 3 Days

This appears to be Eliza's grandfather William in 1841 in Shelford, Bingham reg dist

George Gretton 40 born Bingham per 1851
Sarah Gretton 40
Ann Gretton 14
> William Gretton 8



Harry Gretton, grandfather of Harry Lawson Gretton, in 1861 in Groby, Leicestershire

Elizabeth Wykes 59
John Wykes 59
> Mary Ann Gretton 35 - his mother, widowed
Henry Wykes 29
Sarah Ann Gretton 12
Harriett Gretton 4
> Harry Gretton 2

Marriages Sep 1855
Gretton Isaac Leicester 7a 292
Wykes Mary Ann Leicester 7a 292

GRETTON, ISAAC age at death 34
1859 D Quarter in MARKET BOSWORTH Volume 07A Page 55

Isaac's family in 1841 in Newton Linford Leics:

Benjamin Gretton 60*
Sherdocia Gretton 55
> Isacc Gretton 14

*1851 census shows him born in Staffordshire:

Name Benjamin Gretton
Christening Date 07 Jun 1781
Christening Place Burton-upon-Trent, Stafford, England
Father's Name Richard Gretton
Mother's Name Elizabeth

children all baptised Newton Linford Leics:

Thomas 1815
Samuel c1822 (from census)
James 1822
Isaac 1825



So back to 1841 at least, the two Gretton families do not intersect, with Eliza's being in Nottinghamshire and Harry Lawson's being in Leicestershire from Staffordshire.

I'm suspecting family legend -- although the likelihood is certainly that there is a connection somewhere back in the tree.

... IF Harry Lawson Gretton is the man, of course. Larry Gretton might be some other Gretton child in Eliza's family.


ArgyllGran's suggestion of the fan club is an excellent one!

Harry Gretton, 1921, is in a tree on Ancestry, with marriage and children etc. Higginson family tree (LVernest) - worth contacting the owner to see what information they have.

You could try contacting the Joe Loss Orchestra fan club, the "Toddlers":

Telephone: 01628 528509

Toddlers, Old Orchard, 39 Straight Bit, Flackwell Heath, Buckinghamshire, HP10 9LT.

http://www.toddmillermusic.com

Harry Gretton
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name
Harry Gretton
Event Type
Death Registration
Registration Quarter
Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year
2001
Registration District
Basford
County
Nottinghamshire
Event Place
Basford, Nottinghamshire, England
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969)
18 Feb 1922
Volume
6852
Page
C37B

Harry Gretton
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name
Harry Gretton
Event Type
Birth Registration
Registration Quarter
Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year
1922
Registration District
Leicester
County
Leicestershire
Event Place
Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3)
Smith
Volume
7A
Page
406
Line Number
48

I know patchem, I couldn't make Harry Lawson Gretton match up with Eliza :-(

But ... I think there may be a case of "th" cousin here, and the connection could lie further back than Eliza's siblings.

Harry Lawson Gretton makes absolute sense.

Children named for their parent often went by a middle name, and Larry is the obvious nickname for Lawson.

For there to be nothing at all on line to show Larry Gretton's real full name - !

There are other possibles within the family that Joonie posted- Just been looknig at the sons born to Eliza's siblings- wondered about Harry Gretton born 1922?:

Harold Gretton m Prudence Lewis
son: Jack E L Gretton 01 Jan 1926 <<<<<<d1979

Edwin Gretton d1918 - don't see any children for him

Eliza Gretton m John H Day
son John H Day 1920>>>>>d1920
son: Harry Day 1926>>>d1926
son Walter Day 1926<<<d1926
son: Frederick Day 1929<<<<<possible death 1936

William Gretton m Nora Stevenson
son: William Gretton 25 Feb 1916<<<<<d1985
son: Harry Gretton 18 Feb 1922<<<<<<<<d2001*****

Sarah Jane Gretton m Alfred Harrington
son: Lawrence Harrington 1927 <<<<<<<< d1997
son: Edwin Harrington 25 Dec 1929<<<<d1970

George Gretton- unsure of any children born to him

Robert Gretton died without issue

Herbert W Gretton m Alice Payne
son: Reginald Gretton 08 Apr 1914>>>d1993

Just for information:
Harry's (1891) parents:

Marriages Mar 1883
Gretton Harry Burton 6b 467
Williams Lucy Burton 6b 467

and 1901 census:
Harry Gretton 42 Marksfield
Lucy Gretton 39 Marksfield
Gertrude Gretton 15 Groby
Minnie Gretton 13 Leicester
Alfred Gretton 11 Leicester
Harry Gretton 10 Leicester
Elsie Gretton 8 Leicester

I liked the Harry Lawson Gretton suggestion.

This death:
Harry Lawson Gretton
Birth Date: 11 Jul 1921 Date of Registration: Jul 2001
Age at Death: 80 Registration district: Leicester
Inferred County: Leicestershire Register Number: E12D
District and Subdistrict: 6001E Entry Number: 11

Birth:
Births Sep 1921
Gretton Harry L Lawson Leicester 7a 549

Parents:
Marriages Dec 1919
Gretton Harry Lawson Leicester 7a 605
Lawson Edith Gretton Leicester 7a 605

From 1939, Harry L's father was born in 1891, and Edith in 1890.

GRO:
GRETTON, HARRY WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 249

However, unfortunately, does not fit with JoonieCloonie's family.

I had the same pm that Joonie got, and have asked that margaret reply on the thread.

I did think that Larry was at the very least a shortening of a name, so I looked for Laurence / Lawrence

It is very strange that there was not a write up on his death, even if he was using a stage name, as he was seemingly so well known.

I found that entry from The Stage on FMP ........... but their newspaper records only go up to 1999.

It did not show on Google.

GRETTON, ELIZA mother NEWTON
1890 D Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 232

So, Basford Nottinghamshire Grettons.


Eliza's family in 1911 in Leicester

William Herbert Gretton 49
Emma Gretton 53
Eliza Gretton 20
William Gretton 19
Edwin Gretton 17
Harold Gretton 13

The family in 1901

Emma Gretton 44
Herbert Gretton 39
Herbert Gretton 16
Sarah A Gretton 13
George Gretton 12
Eliza Gretton 10
William Gretton 8
Edwin Gretton 7
Harold Gretton 3

and in 1891:

Emma Gretton 34
Herbert Gretton 30
John Newton 14
Herbert Gretton 6
Robert Gretton 5
Sarah Jane Gretton 3
George Gretton 2
Eliza Gretton 5/12 mo

So that is a complete list of Eliza's brothers and sisters. If Larry was Eliza's nephew (her stepdaughter's first step-cousin), he had to be the son of one of those children.

Do you know the person who has in their tree:

Eliza Gretton 1891 Carlton Notts ...



See what a good idea it is to give the information you have in the first place, so people don't go chasing red herrings off on tangents?

Marriages Dec 1915
Day John H Gretton Leicester 7a 557
Gretton Eliza Day Leicester 7a 557

... They don't actualy seem to have had a child Beatrice - ?

Oh, she was a child of a previous marriage of John's?

Births Mar 1914 ?
DAY Beatrice P Sawbridge Leicester 7a 329

Marriages Jun 1913 ?
Day John H Sawbridge Leicester 7a 400
Sawbridge Phoebe Day Leicester 7a 400

So maybe a cousin by marriage. ;-)

Margaret, I just realized you had answered me by private message rather than posting here. Please just post here so everyone knows that you have read and replied :-)

I don't think this is info you want to keep private:

'thank you for your help all I know about him is that he was my grandma's cousin but as she is no longer with us i can not get any further .Beatrice day her dad John day married Eliza gretton'

So ... that may or may not be the case, as we who have celebrity/nobility tales in our trees all know :-D

'Cousin' could mean many things. I have a cousin (for real) who was Lord Chancellor ... just happens to be a second cousin four times removed ...

I'm not sure whether you know the Elvis Costello connection -- his father was Ross MacManus. Larry Gretton is mentioned in his obituary:

http://tinyurl.com/cjpwmnb

and

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/dec/21/ross-macmanus

MacManus joined Loss in 1955 and stayed for 14 years, sharing the vocal work with Rose Brennan and Larry Gretton. In the 1960s, the band had a regular weekday slot on the BBC Light Programme and later Radio 2, where each singer would perform current hit songs. Loss also had a residency at the Hammersmith Palais, where MacManus's young son, Declan – the future singer and songwriter Elvis Costello – would sometimes watch his father in rehearsals. In 1963 the orchestra performed at the Royal Variety Show, where Ross sang If I Had a Hammer.

In all seriousness, if Larry Gretton is a family member, Margaret, and there is a reasonable reason for wanting this info, I would approach Elvis Costello. He seems like a nice fellow. :-)

Just do not let him make you listen to his wife 'playing the piano' and 'singing'! :-D

That's the Q&A that was referred to in the other thread Margaret had here and didn't tell us about, that I linked to. And certainly I hunted for births, marriages and deaths last night by every method known to genealogists with a bone. :-D

It was the reason I liked the Laurence for a bit, since his ER listing seemed to end in 2002, but that didn't work out.

I figured stage name, of course, it's just that adopting the surname 'Gretton' as a stage name seemed rather odd. Possibly it was something like his mother's name and worked better than his father's for show biz purposes.

One website asks about him in 2010 and then says he died about 8 years prior,so c2002
But he was probably using a stage name as not seeing a death for him as Larry Gretton

It's amazing how someone so obviously well-known has left so little trace.

Somewhere, there is information that may make its way to the internet someday ...

The first references I see of him in the papers are in Nottingham 1949- singing to the music of Al Washbrooke at the Victoria Ballroom.