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Re the "cousin" question in 1881 and 1891 -
it may not mean actually "cousin".
Thomas and Ruth are both described as "cousin".

John Dittman / Deithman is also a mariner. Maybe he and his family were just close friends of Thomas & Ruth, and happy to act as unofficial foster parents/guardians for Ruth - possibly after her mother's death, though we don't know when that was, or possibly if Ruth was away at sea with Thomas.

So grateful for all this help. To answer Dea's Question: Witnesses at wedding Thomas Johnson and Mary Watts. My sister and I have been looking into the Dietman/Farmer connection but as yet cannot link Martha to Mary. The Sarah Jane Ruth Edwards we also agree with. Sarah is a name used by Mary Ann for one of her children. Marys Anns daughter Frances (my grandmother) also named one of her children Ruth, so could tie in. I was hoping there was some sort of Seamans book that would have details of family in it, but other than vessels and their crews haven't found any information (except for David Fernie). We had starting putting in some of these details into our tree a few months back, but then stopped as we didn't want to go down the wrong track, I think the Graves family tree has taken that info which we have since deleted. Once again thanks everyone will keep on researching.

The Thomas Edwards at sea in 1901, posted by Catherine, I suspect is the one we looked at initially, married to Margaret.

Master pilot, and married.

1861

Name: Ruth Edwards
[Ruth Johnson]
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: 1842
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: James Johnson
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 75
Piece: 2652
Folio: 59
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
James Johnson 65 - Cook
Jane Johnson 49

*******Ruth Edwards 19

Charles Cornwall 23
Christena Cornwall 21
Mary Elizabeth 3/12

Thomas is a widower in 1891, but I don't see Ruth's death, at least not in Lancashire.

Don't see Mary Ann's birth, nor Sarah Jane's - just SJ's baptism.

Marriages Sep 1859 (>99%)
**** Edwards Thomas Liverpool 8b 207
**** Johnson Ruth Liverpool 8b 207

Pinnell Richard James Liverpool 8b 207
Slater Lavinia Liverpool 8b 207

.....................

Name: Ruth Johnson
Gender: Female
Age: 18
Address:- Burlington Street
Birth Year: abt 1841
Marriage Date: 4 Jul 1859
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St John, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St John' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
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Father: James Johnson
Occupation:- Steward
Spouse: Thomas Edwards

Name: Thomas Edwards
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Birth Year: abt 1832
Occupation:- Butcher
Marriage Date: 4 Jul 1859
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St John, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St John' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
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Father: William Edwards
Occupation:- Farmer
Address:- Stanhope Street
Spouse: Ruth Johnson

In which case - young Ruth's birth:

EDWARDS, RUTH mms JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 9

Thomas in 1901??

Name: Thomas Edwards
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation to Head: Master
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Search Photos: Search for 'Vessels' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Town: Off Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: Master Pilot

Condition as to marriage: Married

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Bootle
ED, institution, or vessel: David Fernie
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3464
Folio: 66
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Edwards 62
William Roberts 60
Thomas B Bark 67
Edward Woods 59
John A Porington 47
Alfred G Pearce 47
James F Jones 38
Thomas F Boyd 38
Thomas F Inkester 41
Samuel McHughes 40
Frederick S Loveridge 37
Frederick A Petersen 34
Charles H Caldwell 30
William Evans 59
William A Dixon 38
Hugh T Hughes 34
William H Buckley 30
Denny Coffey 21
Albert Kurton 20
Richard Murgan 17

Ruth in 1881 (living with same family as 1891)

Name: Ruth Edwards
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship to Head: Cousin
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 32 Epsom St
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3600
Folio: 13
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
J. H. Dittman 49 - born: Preußen
Martha Dittman 39
Martha Dittman 13
John Dittman 11
Henry C. Dittman 3
Julietta Dittman 1
Ruth Edwards 5
Sarah Miresage 76
Charlott Valence 72

.........................

Name: John Deithman
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1832
Marriage Date: 30 May 1867
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St John, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St John' in the UK City, Town and Village
Father: John Deithman
occupation:- Mariner
father:- John (Shipwright)
Spouse: Martha Farmer
father:- Charles (Butcher)
..............................

Name: John Dittman
Age: 36
Birth Year: abt 1832
Birth Place: Hamburg
Event Date: 7 Oct 1868
Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name: City of Paris
Official Number: 54926
Reference Number: 387CRE/221

Census states that Thomas Edwards is 'cousin' so as John is from Hamburg I would presume that he is cousin to Martha Farmer, John's wife?

Thomas Edwards a butcher dad William a farmer of Stanhope Street married Ruth Johnson 4/7/1859 her dad James Johnson. Witness Joe Lister Ellis and Mary Joyce Ellis.


1861
Ruth Edwards married born Ireland at home with dad James Johnson.
so could husband Thomas be away at sea ??

Maryb.

A tree (owner robgraves1 ) on Ancestry says Mary Ann's parents were Thomas and Ruth.

It also says Sarah Jane Ruth is her sister.


HOWEVER, it's not to be trusted.

It says this is her birth:

EDWARDS, MARY ANN mms ELLIS
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 304

But that doesn't fit with her age in all the censuses, nor with the marriage above.

There's no Thomas Edwards / Ellis marriage.

The tree claims there was a sister Ruth, born c1877 Liverpool - but there's no such birth with mms either Ellis or Barton.

Oops I see these have already been posted. got distracted by the phone before I could post but will leave anyway.

I would say that this is a good contender for the baptism of sister Sarah Jane, which gives her mother as Ruth:-

Name: Sarah Jane Ruth Edwards
Age: 0
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1874
Baptism Date: 11 Oct 1875
Baptism Place: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
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Father: Thomas Edwards
Mother: Ruth Edwards

Father's occupation is ( Mariner )
.......................................................
1871 (for mother)
Name: Ruth Edwards
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Officer
Gender: Female
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: Kirkdale Fever Hospital
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3829
Folio: 89
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Ruth Edwards 28
................................

Maybe?
1891
Name: Thomas Edwards
Gender: Male
Age: 53
Relationship: Cousin
Birth Year: 1838
Birth Place: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Residence Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Sub registration district: St Martin
ED, Institution or Vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2903
Folio: 39
Household Members:
Name Age
John Dittmann 58
Martha Dittmann 49
Martha Dittmann 23
John Dittmann 21
Henry G Dittmann 12

Thomas Edwards 53 - Mariner b.1838 Liverpool
Ruth Edwards 13 - b.1878 Liverpool
................................

Baptism of Ruth:-

Name: Ruth Edwards
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 6 Jun 1877
Baptism Date: 25 Jul 1877
Baptism Place: St Peter's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Thomas Edwards
Mother: Ruth
FHL Film Number: 93899

Just possibly Ruth in 1871 ?????????



Ruth Edwards
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Ruth Edwards
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Officer (Nurse)
Gender: Female
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: Kirkdale Fever Hospital
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3829
Folio: 89
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Ruth Edwards 28 - married, born Dublin.



Maybe the marriage ????

Thomas Edwards
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Thomas Edwards
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1965
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Ruth M Barton
Volume Number: 10d
Page Number: 1169

Possibly Sarah Jane's baptism??

Sarah Jane Ruth Edwards
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Sarah Jane Ruth Edwards
Age: 0
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1874
Baptism Date: 11 Oct 1875
Baptism Place: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Thomas Edwards - mariner <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother: Ruth Edwards


But I don't see the family in censuses.

Who were the witnesses at her marriage please ?

Dea x

Thanks everyone for this information Mary Ann and John Bradney Johnson did live at 45 Fairclough Lane, Liverpool. We have been paying a researcher to try and confirm her parentage, date of birth etc. But have so far drawn a blank. Will try and follow up all the info you have given me. The only piece of written evidence I have with her name on is her Marriage certificate. Thanks everyone.

The same family in 1911

Name: Mary Edwards
Age in 1911: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liscard
Search Photos: Search for 'Liscard' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: 34 Poole Road Egremont Cheshire
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Assisting At Home
Registration district: Birkenhead
Registration District Number: 452
Sub-registration district: Wallasey
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 22073
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Edwards 72 (retired Master Liverpool Pilot)
Margaret Edwards 75
Margaret A Edwards 45
Mary Edwards 43

Mary is still living with her parents so this can't be the correct family.

safc's 1871 family in 1881

Name: Mary Edwards
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Thomas Edwards
Mother: Margaret Edwards
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liscard
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street address: Wellington Road 2 Arthur Terr
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3590
Folio: 107
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Edwards 42 (occupation is a Liverpool Pilot)
Margaret Edwards 45
David W. Edwards 17
Margaret A. Edwards 15
Mary Edwards 13
Sarah A. Edwards 11
John H. Edwards 6
James S. Edwards 5
Robert Edwards 4

Name: Mary Ann Edwards
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1867
Marriage Date: 19 Jun 1887
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Thomas Edwards
Spouse: John Johnson
Marital Status: Single
Age: 27
Birth Date: 1860
FHL Film Number: 93938
Reference ID: it56, p109, no1