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Hi I lost Thomas Mole, born 1834 Newcastle on Tyne. I have him on
1851 census..parents are Ralph Mole and Eleanor Kay. He listed at age 18 as carver and guilder.
census 1861 shows him married to Jane Cummings b. 1837. 2 children listed
John Henry and Ellen. I have followed John Henry no problem there. I haven't found adult Ellen Yet.
After that I can not find Thomas Mole. Is there a union or trade registry? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Trudy

1861 for location

Name: Thomas Mole
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Mole
Gender: Male
Where born: Newcastle Under Lyme
Civil Parish: Bury
Town: Bury
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bury
Sub-registration district: South Bury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 112
Piece: 2844
Folio: 116
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Mole 26
Jane Mole 23
John H Mole 3 born South Shields
Ellen Mole 1

Is this John Henry - looking because I thought he would probably be with family aged 14. On board Wellesley a Training Ship

FMP shows I've looked at this record before

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
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First name(s) John
Last name Mole
Relationship -
Marital status -
Sex Male
Age 14
Birth year 1857
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth place England
Birth county Durham
Birth county as transcribed CODURHAM
House name -
Street -
Parish Willington
Town -
County Northumberland
Country England
Registration district Tynemouth
Vessel name Wellesley, Of ?
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 5111
Folio 88
Page 0

1861 from FMP for places of birth

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5, Haymarket Street, Bury, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Mole Head Married Male 26 1835 Carver - Newcastle under Lyne***
Jane Mole Wife Married Female 23 1838 - Durham, Durham, England
John H Mole Son - Male 3 1858 - South Shields, Durham, England
Ellen Mole Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

*** POB dittoed from previous person. Maybe enumerator just saw the Newcastle and dittoed - 1841/51 say born Northumberland

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
MOLE, JOHN HENRY CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS UNION Volume 10A Page 422

MOLE, ELLEN CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 326 Order

As they seem to move about a bit are these also children -

MOLE, SARAH CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 58 Order

MOLE, THOMAS WILLIAM CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 418

MOLE, JANE CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in EASINGTON Volume 10A Page 397

MOLE, ROBERT SAMUEL LENNOX CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 361

--------------------
Only seeing Thomas and Jane's marriage to account for the births
(1857 Newcastle marriages - combination looks to be Mole m Leavie and Cook m Cummings)


England & Wales marriages 1837-2005 Transcription

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name MOLE
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1854
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ THOMAS MOLE married one of these people
Margaret Alice Lish, Jane Cummings
District Sunderland
District number -
County Durham
Country England
Volume 10A
Volume as transcribed 10A
Page number 432

???

also there a Sarah Mole aged 10 and an Ellen Mole age 61

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

First name(s) Jane
Last name Mole
Relationship Pauper
Marital status -
Sex Female
Age 5
Birth year 1866
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth place England
Birth county -
Birth county as transcribed ENGLAND
House name -
Street Union Workhouse, West Turnpike
Parish Elswick
Town -
City Newcastle on Tyne
County Northumberland
Country England
Registration district Newcastle upon Tyne
Vessel name -
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 5083
Folio 85
Page 31

?? death for Thomas in Leeds RD where possible son Thomas William b in 1863. If he was 18 on the 1851 census then born c 1832/3, so this would be the right age

Name: Age at Death (in years): THOMAS 33 Order
GRO Reference: 1865 J Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page 304

Perhaps Jane then moved home for birth of Jane Q2 1865.

Robert b 1868 - child would take the surname of his Mother unless the Father admitted paternity and was there at the registration

Yes, looks as though Thomas born c1832

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Castle Street, St John, Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Ralph Mole Male 30 1811 Northumberland, England
Eleanor Mole Female 28 1813 Northumberland, England
Thomas Mole Male 9 1832 Northumberland, England
Margaret Mole Female 6 1835 Northumberland, England
Ralph Mole Male 4 1837 Northumberland, England
Thomas Kay Male 52 1789 Northumberland, England
Margaret Kay Female 50 1791 -
James Grahamsley Male 50 1791 Northumberland, England
Sarah G Grahamsley Female 50 1791 Northumberland, England
Margaret Grahamsley Female 25 1816 Northumberland, England
William Grahamsley Male 15 1826 Northumberland, England
Sarah Grahamsley Female 7 1834 Northumberland, England
John Dargue Male 60 1781 Northumberland, England
Hannah Dargue Female 50 1791 Northumberland, England

-----------------------------
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Boars Head Yard, Westgate, Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elenor Mole Head Married Female 38 1813 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Thomas Mole Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Carver & Guilder Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Ralph Mole Son Unmarried Male 14 1837 Chemist Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
George Mole Son - Male 8 1843 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Jane A Mole Daughter - Female 3 1848 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England

Possible death of Ellen 1859 ??

Her brother Robert Samuel was born in Durham in 1868.

Ellen Mole
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Ellen Mole
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Registration Year: 1867
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 8
Registration district: Durham
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 209

Trudy has sent a PM to me. I've replied and asked her to return to the thread.

Also asked where she has any of the family / John Henry in 1871 as she said in OP she had followed him and doesn't have adult Ellen, who would then only be 10/11

Her PM -

wow that was fast.
You have confirmed most of information I have.
A new thought on John Henry which I will explore. I have nothing that would indicate him going to sea. You also brought in possibility of other children of Thomas and Jane which I will also follow. Again no info on them in my notes.
I am not certain about his death. So many Mole lines that use similar given names.
John Henry immigrated to Canada as did several of his children. He is my Great Grandfather.
I will still hunt for Thomas. Thank you for your help Trudy

If you don't already know about this site - then have a look

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

Gives mmn for births 1837 - 1917 (elsewhere only starts 1911 Q3 and age at death 1837 - 1957 (elsewhere only starts 1866)
Only thing with deaths is it gives in years, but site can't distinguish and show months etc

You have to register, but is free to search. PDF emailed copies of certificates - on an extended trial basis - are only £6 at the moment instead of the usual £9.25. OK if not needed for legal purposes.

Thomas appears to have have died prior to 1867 as this article about his son's death shows:

Durham County Advertiser 18 October 1867

DEATHS - in this City....

In Gilesgate....... on 13th inst., Thomas, son of the late Mr Thomas Mole, wood-carver, aged 4 years.

Dea x

In those days, Ships were often used as childrens homes, Industrial schools etc.

In 1854 the Wellesley was a guard ship in ordinary at Chatham. That same year she became a harbour flagship and receiving ship at Chatham.

In 1868 the Admiralty loaned her to the London School Ship Society, which refitted her as a Reformatory School. She was renamed Cornwall and was moored off Purfleet in April. Later, Cornwall, renamed Wellesey, was moved to the Tyne and served as The Tyne Industrial Training Ship of Wellesley Nautical School.



The Wellesley Nautical School was founded in 1868 by a group of philanthropic businessmen on Tyneside under the leadership of James Hall, 'to provide shelter for Tyneside waifs and train young men for service in both Royal and Merchant Navies.' The first accommodation was on board a Bombay built 74-gun third rate ship of the line HMS Cornwall, which had been launched as HMS Wellesley. This ship was repossessed and replaced circa 1874 by the hulked third rate, HMS Boscawen, moored on the Tyne at North Shields and also renamed T.S. Wellesley. By the early 1900s Wellesley was accepting boys from London, Manchester and Liverpool as well as from Tyneside and Yorkshire.


Dea x

A bit more info re the 1863 Lees death Greyghost posted as a possibility for Thomas's death:

Thomas Mole
in the Leeds, England, Beckett Street Cemetery, 1845-1987
Name: Thomas Mole
Birth Year: abt 1832
Age: 33
Death Date: abt 1865
Burial Date: 26 Apr 1865
Burial Place: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
Register Type: Burials - Anglicans

Address: 11 Princes Court.

wow you people are so awesome. I don't have experience to find some of these things.
Do any of you know the term "boy sailor"? In the notes I took when I spoke to my father he thought his father Frank Mole had been one. My grandfather Frank never talked about his past to his children. My dad picked up the term while listening in on adults talking. Instead of it applying to his father maybe it applied to his grandfather instead.
Greyghost 1871 is a blank so far. It is like they went poof. Which doesn't happen. In the 1881 census he is married to Jane Cummings and has 2 small children. They lived on Buston Granary St. Alnick West.
Thank you for info on the training ship. It could be the family hit hard times. Trudy

oops I was so excited by all the info I gave John Henry's wife's name incorrectly It is Jane Thompson b. 1857

This 'could' be 'our' Ellen's death?

Deaths Sep 1867
Mole Ellen 8 Durham 10a 209

Her birth confirms she would have ben the correct age:
MOLE, ELLEN CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 326


This was confirmed as her brother's death shortly after so the family were in the Durham area:
Deaths Dec 1867
Mole Thomas 4 Durham 10a 194

Dea x

Re "boy sailor" - just Google it and similar phrases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_seaman

https://www.navy-net.co.uk/community/threads/boy-sailors.35016/

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/rnboyest.htm

Re Robert Samuel Lennox MOLE - a bit of a wild theory (or clutching at straws !!)

Happy to be proved wrong or gaga!

Not finding him anywhere else 1871 or marriage/death as MOLE

?? I wondered IF the Lennox was a nod to a Father?

There is no birth registered in England/Wales or Scotland 1868 +/- 2 years for a Robert Samuel LENNOX but there are these deaths -

Results:
Name: Age at Death (in years): Order:
LENNOX, ROBERT SAMUEL - Order
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 345 Order

LENNOX, ROBERT SAMUEL 4 Order
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 357 Order

Now, I am following one of my 'little hunches' on this one so it may be total rubbish but I have to go out now so will post my thoughts on here and see if anyone comesup with anything before I get back...........

IF that is the death of Thomas in 1865 then the last child we found which looked like Jane's would not be Thomas's.....

The child was registered as follows:

MOLE, ROBERT SAMUEL LENNOX mmn CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 361

I was trying to follow what happened to Jane after Thomas died and found this 'interesting' marriage:


Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
Kilpatrick Mary S.Shields 10a 1216 Scan available - click to view
Lennox John South Shields 10a 1216 Scan available - click to view ********
MOLE Jane Cummings South Shields 10a 1216 Scan available - click to view *******
TRAIN Francis James S.Shields 10a 1216

Now, this 'looks like' 'our' Jane's marriage to the posssible father of her son Robert ??? - What does anyone else think ??

So far, I have only been able to find this 'possible' Jane who is unfortunately a widow on the 1881:


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Trafalgar Strt, Conside cum Knitsley, Lanchester, Durham, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
John Potts Head Married Male 41 1840 Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England Clothier Tailor
Transcription
William Potts Son Single Male 15 1866 Chester Le Street, Durham, England Apprentice Clothier
Transcription
John A Potts Son Single Male 13 1868 Chester Le Street, Durham, England Scholar
Transcription
Isabella Potts Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Consett, Durham, England Scholar
Transcription
Thomas Potts Son Single Male 9 1872 Consett, Durham, England Scholar
Transcription
Frederick Potts Son Single Male 7 1874 Consett, Durham, England Scholar
Transcription
Albert Potts Son Single Male 5 1876 Consett, Durham, England Scholar
Transcription
Ethel Potts Daughter Single Female 1 1880 Consett, Durham, England -
Transcription
Thomas Boal Nephew Single Male 12 1869 Jarrow, Durham, England Visitor
Transcription
**Jane Lennox Boarder Widow Female 46 1835 Chester Le Street, Durham, England Dressmaker ??????????
Transcription
Jane A Lowdon Servant Single Female 20 1861 Northumberland, England Domestic Serv


I haven't yet traced 'Robert' but I MUST go now as I am late !!

Will be back later.

Dea x


P.S. - There 'was' a possible death for John ??:

Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
Lennox John 66 Gateshead 10a 417

There could be others??

Dea x

Seems we're both having "a little hunch" Dea

there is this birth - same area as death of Robert Samuel and ? a son named for him

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
LENNOX, JESSIE FLORENCE CUMMINGS Order
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 525

there are no other Lennox/Cummings births before or after that and no Lennox/Cummings marriages pre 1871

This looks to be the family in 1881 -

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
137, Stephenson Street, Tynemouth, Northumberland, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
John Lennox Head Married Male 42 1839 Kendal, Westmorland, England Lath Render
Jane Lennox Wife Married Female 43 1838 Durham, Durham, England Machinist
Jessie F Lennox Daughter Single Female 10 1871 Maryport, Cumberland, England Scholar
Samuel J Lennox Son Single Male 8 1873 Annan, Dumfriesshire, Scotland Scholar