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25 Mar 2019 15:18 |
Thanks everyone
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 17:10 |
Births Mar 1918 (>99%) McDonnell Margaret V Godden Medway 2a 1051
1939
Walton Hospital Rica Lane, Liverpool , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
Margaret V Riordan (Mcdonnell) 07 Jan 1918 Female Hospital Nurse Single Officer 1 49
Marriages Dec 1939 (>99%)
McDonnell Margaret V O'Riordan Uxbridge 3a 508 S O'Riordan Denis McDonnell Uxbridge 3a 508
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ArgyllGran
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24 Mar 2019 17:09 |
Quite illogically, I would tend towards Grace being Phoebe's child, simply because of their middle names Elizabeth and Bessie.
But only Grace's birth cert would let you know for sure.
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 17:00 |
First name(s) PHOEBE E Last name GODDEN Marriage quarter 2 Marriage year 1917
PHOEBE E GODDEN married
Francis M McDonnell
Spouse's last name McDonnell District Bethnal Green District number - County London Country England Volume 1C Volume as transcribed 1C Page number 280
First name(s) PHOEBE ELIZABETH Last name MCDONNELL Gender Female Birth day 28 Birth month 12 Birth year 1892 Age - Death quarter 1 Death year 1971 District Hillingdon County Middlesex Volume 5C Page
Freebmd has her second initial as H, which is why you couldn't trace her
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 16:52 |
It would seem logical that she was Violet's sister's child - the only sure answer, of course, is the birth cert, but it probably isn't worth the outlay as she's only a 'twig'
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 16:50 |
Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
Godden Violet M Medway 2a 1389 SMITH John T G Medway 2a 1389
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+++DetEcTive+++
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24 Mar 2019 16:31 |
Thank you for all your hard work. My gut feeling is that she was a Godden, possibly adopted by the Smiths thus not biologically related.
Thanks again :-)
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ArgyllGran
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24 Mar 2019 14:01 |
EDIT: Oops, you've posted all this while I was still typing, Mary! And more concisely.
It's a bit of a puzzle - if Grace (born Godden - have we decided that?) ) was the niece of Violet Godden, but was called Smith, John and Violet must have adopted her.
Violet had two sisters who could be Graces' mother - Phoebe and Alice:
Violet Godden in the 1901 England Census Name: Violet Godden Age: 19 Estimated birth year: abt 1882 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Father: Alfred Godden Mother: Harriett Godden Birth Place: Cliffe, Kent, England Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret Ecclesiastical parish: Rochester St Margaret County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Registration district: Medway Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Neighbors: Piece: 725 Folio: 104 Page Number: 9 Household schedule number: 55 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Godden 48 Harriett Godden 49 George Godden 23 Ernest Godden 20 Violet Godden 19 Lenis Godden 14 [ Lewis ] Phoebe Godden 9 Alice Godden 7
Violet M Godden in the 1891 England Census Name: Violet M Godden Gender: Female Age: 6 Relationship: Daughter Birth Year: 1885 Father: Alfred Godden Mother: Harrietta Godden Birth Place: Cliffe, Kent, England Civil Parish: Stone Residence Place: Stone, Stone, Kent, England Sub registration district: Dartford ED, Institution or Vessel: 14 Neighbors: Piece: 641 Folio: 118 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Godden 38 Harrietta Godden 39 John H Godden 16 Alfred W Godden 14 George F Godden 12 Ernest Godden 10 Violet M Godden 6 Lewis Godden 3 Harry Godden 1/12
Phoebe:
Phoebe Godden in the 1911 England Census Name: Phoebe Godden Age in 1911: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1893 Relation to Head: Servant Gender: Female Birth Place: Dartford, Kent Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Chaplere'S House, Borstal, Rochester, Kent Marital status: Single Occupation: Nurse Registration district: Medway Registration District Number: 47 Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household schedule number: 365 Piece: 3889
GODDEN, PHOEBE ELIZABETH mms FILMER GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 508
I don't see Phoebe after 1911.
Alice:
GODDEN, ALICE CLARA mms FILMER GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in MIDWAY Volume 02A Page 602
Alice Clara Godden in the 1911 England Census Name: Alice Clara Godden Age in 1911: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1895 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Birth Place: Borstal, Kent Civil Parish: Rochester St Margaret County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: 19 Avenue Terrace, Borstal, Rochester Marital status: Single Registration district: Medway Registration District Number: 47 Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Household schedule number: 57 Piece: 3889 Household Members: Name Age Alfred Godden 57 George Fredrick Godden 32 Lewis Godden 23 Alice Clara Godden 16
Alice C Godden in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005 Name: Alice C Godden Registration Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1918 Registration district: Medway Inferred County: Kent Spouse: Albert E Maynard Volume Number: 2a Page Number: 1640
Alice C Maynard in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Alice C Maynard Gender: Female Marital status: Married Birth Date: 18 Mar 1895 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 48 Residence Place: Rochester, Kent, England Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Schedule Number: 319 Sub Schedule Number: 2 Enumeration District: DINF Registration district: 47-1 Inferred Spouse: Albert E Maynard Inferred Children: Gladys A Maynard Violet M Maynard Albert H R Maynard Household Members: Name Albert E Maynard Alice C Maynard Gladys A Maynard Violet M Maynard Albert H R Maynard Harriet A Godden
Well, still none the wiser. Grace could be the daughter of Phoebe who seems to drop off the map, or of Alice, who may not have wanted to keep an illegitimate daughter herself - or maybe her husband wouldn't accept Grace.
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Mary
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24 Mar 2019 13:45 |
Violet Mary Godden 1884-1978 married John Thomas Giles Smith o/n/d 1911.
Violet had two sisters Alice Clara 1894 and Phoebe Elizabeth J/F/M 1893.
Alice Clara married Albert E Maynard 1918 and I can't find a marriage for Phoebe
Tree on ancestry says Grace adopted by Violet as a new born from Phoebe who was the natural mother of Grace.
Maryb.
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 13:42 |
You may never be able to identify her father. No doubt she will have named her mother’s husband when she married
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 13:38 |
Too early, malyon. She was born September
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malyon
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24 Mar 2019 12:38 |
Grace B Smith England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008
Name: Grace B Smith Event Type: Birth Registration Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun Registration Year: 1914 Registration District: Basford County: Nottinghamshire Event Place: Basford, Nottinghamshire, England Mother's Maiden Name: Reason Volume: 7B Page: 633 Affiliate Line Number: 31
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ArgyllGran
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24 Mar 2019 12:38 |
Perhaps her mother married a Smith.
Possible marriages in Kent (though could have been anywhere) , as Grace was Smith by 1925:
Marriages Mar 1915 (>99%) Godden Charlotte L Smith Dover 2a 1866 Smith Walter H Godden Dover 2a 1866
Marriages Sep 1918 (>99%) Godden Christabel M Smith W.Ashford 2a 2293 Smith James A Godden W. Ashford 2a 2293
Marriages Jun 1923 (>99%) Godden Elsie M Smith Croydon 2a 783 Smith Alexander Godden Croydon 2a 783
EDIT: No, having now looked at the 1925 image, it looks as if perhaps she was adopted by Violet and John.
The image doesn't say "Niece" as far as I can see. (looking at it on Ancestry)
EDIT again: Oh, I'm looking at the return journey:
Grace Bessie Smith in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 Name: Grace Bessie Smith Arrival Age: 11 Birth Date: abt 1914 Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States Arrival Date: 27 Oct 1925 Port of Arrival: Southampton, England Ports of Voyage: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada; Cherbourg Ship Name: Orduna Shipping Line: Royal Mail Steam Packet Company Official Number: 135539
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malyon
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24 Mar 2019 12:36 |
Grace B Smith England and Wales Birth Registration Index, 1837-2008
Name: Grace B Smith Event Type: Birth Registration Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration Year: 1914 Registration District: St. Faiths County: Norfolk Event Place: St. Faiths, Norfolk, England Mother's Maiden Name: Smith Volume: 4B Page: 175 Affiliate Line Number: 98
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+++DetEcTive+++
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24 Mar 2019 12:24 |
??? but adopted the Smith surname?
Births Sep 1914 (>99%) GODDEN Grace B Godden Hackney 1b 851
GRO version GODDEN, GRACE BESSIE - GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 851
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24 Mar 2019 12:22 |
Thank you ArgyllGran.
Going back to the passenger list image, Violet Mary Smith nee Godden gives the address of her nearest relative as her father (or at least it seems to imply that) in Borstal, Kent. Grace Bessie Smith's entry says Grandfather 'as above' . That would suggest that her mmn was Godden.
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ArgyllGran
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24 Mar 2019 12:13 |
No help - but just for the record:
Grace B Bareham in the 1939 England and Wales Register Name: Grace B Bareham Gender: Female Marital status: Married Birth Date: 5 Sep 1914 Residence Year: 1939 Address: 1 Ashley Gardens. Residence Place: Thurrock, Essex, England Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties Schedule Number: 125 Sub Schedule Number: 2 Enumeration District: DCLN Registration district: 192-1 Inferred Spouse: Clifford H Bareham Household Members: Name Clifford H Bareham Grace B Bareham
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24 Mar 2019 12:02 |
Erika, you are of course correct re the MC. However, as said, she's a twig.
Does anyone have access to SEAX & are able to check if the marriage is on there?
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24 Mar 2019 12:01 |
Its possible - the image says she was born in Strood (Kent) not Clapton. Don't know where they got that from.
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ErikaH
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24 Mar 2019 12:00 |
If she knew her father's name etc, info will be on the cert
Marriages Sep 1939 (>99%) Bareham Clifford H Smith Thurrock 4a 2973 Smith Grace B Bareham Thurrock 4a 2973
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