Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:23 |
Elizabeth McKenzie Newlands (birth suggested by GG) pprobably married James Cameron in Forres in 1915 - so hadn't died before 1911.
NEWLANDS ELIZABETH MCKEN. . . . . . . CAMERON JAMES 1915 137/ 32 Forres
She may be the sister of the Mary whose death I discounted above.
Elizabeth Newlands in the 1901 Scotland Census Name: Elizabeth Newlands Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898 Relationship: Daur (Daughter) Father's Name: William Newlands Mother's Name: Mary Newlands Gender: Female Where born: Forres, Morayshire Registration Number: 137 Registration District: Forres Civil Parish: Forres County: Moray Address: 20 Murdoch's Bdgs ED: 1 Household Schedule Number: 85 Line: 8 Roll: CSSCT1901_41 Household Members: Name Age William Newlands 22 Mary Newlands 28 Elizabeth Newlands 3 Mary Newlands 2
and this looks like her later:
Elizabeth Mackenzie McGillvray in the Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924 Name: Elizabeth Mackenzie McGillvray Gender: Female Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898 Birth Place: Forres, Scotland Age: 26 Date of Arrival: 17 1924 Port of Arrival: Saint John, New Brunswick Ship Name: Marburn
Husband: William McGillvray
Marriage:
MCGILLIVRAY WILLIAM NEWLANDS ELIZABETH 1924 137/ 5 Forres
|
|
ErikaH
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:28 |
If 5 children were born and two had died, as per 1911, the person ‘Dolly’ simply can’t be the natural child of Charles and Jane, unless she was born AFTER 1911 census was taken
Have you considered that she may have been the illegitimate child of one of the daughters?
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:40 |
I've just spoken to my g Aunt, she is convinced Dolly is one of the sisters. I'm sure she's wrong, nothing seems to connect her to any of them.
She also didn't know about the two siblings that died and neither did I so thanks for that information.
I think I'll try and track down some of Jane Newlands (1893) family.
Thank you again for your help. Meg
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:43 |
You say, "In the photos Dolly does look younger than Jane and Christina."
Does that mean that she is in the same photos as Jane and Christina?
Roughly when do you think the photos were taken?
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:52 |
Jane 1893 is Jeannie Hurn in 1911 census.
Children:
HURN, HELEN ISABELLA mms NEWLANDS GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 311
HURN, HANNAH mms NEWLANDS GRO Reference: 1911 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 576
Births Sep 1923 (>99%) Hurn Elizabeth Newlands Tynemouth 10b 564
Births Dec 1924 (>99%) Hurn Jeannie N Newlands Tynemouth 10b 515
HURN CHARLES NEWLAND M 1921 168/4 8 Woodside
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:54 |
Hi have a photo of Jane and Dolly Grimsby Docks 5th September 1958. Also a photo of Christina, Dolly and Jane, but unsure what year. I have a public tree on Ancestry with the photos on there.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 14:57 |
Death of son Charles::
HURN CHARLES NEWLAND 19 1940 153/AF 145 Service Returns
CHARLES NEWLANDS HURN Ordinary Seaman Service Number: P/SSX 31227 H.M.S. Kimberley Royal Navy United Kingdom Died 14 April 1940 19 years old PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL Panel 40, Column 1. United Kingdom
Additional Info: Son of Joe and Jane Hurn, of Woodside, Aberdeen.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 15:01 |
Possible births of other Hurn children, as Charles was born in Woodside ???
HURN GEORGE M 1926 168/4 130 Woodside
HURN CHRISTINA F 1929 168/4 3 Woodside
HURN JOYCE F 1930 168/4 193 Woodside
You can't get certs for these births at present, because of the Covid situation.
There are lots of Hurn births in other areas of Aberdeen(shire) - but they can't all be Joe and Jane's children. Some may be grand-children.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 15:14 |
Deaths in Scotland of Hurn children with mms Newlands:
HURN JOSEPH 62 mms NEWLANDS 1980 321/ 113 Bucksburn
HURN [ also listed as Paterson - married 1932 Aberdeen ] GLADYS MARGARET 67 mms NEWLANDS 1982 321/ 49 Bucksburn
HURN [ also listed as Kane - married 1929 Rubislaw ] HANNAH 75 mms NEWLANDS 1987 321/ 144 Bucksburn
HURN [ also listed as McKinnon married 1956 Aberdeen ] JEANNIE NEWLAND 62 mms NEWLANDS 1987 369/ 6 Arbroath
HURN [ also listed as Henderson - married 1929 Woodside ] HELEN ISABELLA 77 mms NEWLANDS 1988 321/ 128 Bucksburn
Gladys's birth - one of these (or both):
HURN GLADYS MARGARET F 1915 168/3 72 Rubislaw
HURN GLADYS MARGARET F 1915 168/1 45 St Nicholas
Joseph's birth:
HURN JOSEPH M 1918 168/1 47 St Nicholas
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 15:23 |
I've looked at the photo of Jane and Dolly at Grimsby Docks. I agree she does look a bit younger than Jane (assuming Dolly is sthe one on the right) - but not by much.
They do look very similar in the photo of Christina, Dolly and Jane with William Webster, and could well be sisters.
If her surname is never mentioned, she could be just a friend.
[ I also see that you already have all that info re Hurn births ! ]
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 15:24 |
Thanks ArgrllGran
Didn't know about Jeannie or Joseph.
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 19:49 |
Don’t know if this could be of any significance, but just looked at Charles Newlands death certificate and Jane Hurn his daughter was living at 754 Great Northern Road 1929. Was told Dolly lived at 747?
|
|
Kay????
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 20:28 |
---just putting this in,,,,,,,,,,,,Dolly is a pet name for Dorothy.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 20:43 |
Mrs Jane Hurn in the Aberdeen City and Former Counties of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, Electoral Registers, 1832-1976 Name: Mrs Jane Hurn Record Type: Parliamentary and Municipal Registers Residence Year: 1930-1931 Street Address: Great Northern Road 754 Residence Place: Aberdeenshire, Scotland Parliamentary Division: Aberdeen
Living with Joe Hurn.
There's also a family by the name of McKimmie at the same address - presumably a different flat.
At 747 there's Mrs Josephine Bissett, Mrs Jean Fraser, and Charles & Mrs Isabella Anderson.
So Dolly wasn't there in 1930-31, anyway.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 20:52 |
The only Dorothy Hurn showing up on Aberdeen ERs on Ancestry is in 1975 - too late?
She's at 22c Manor Avenue, with George, Graham, Joseph, and Margaret I M Hurn.
In 1965, at 22 Manor Avenue are Margaret I and Joseph Hurn.
They married in 1937:
HURN JOSEPH MILNE MARGARET INSCH 1937 168/3 393 Aberdeen Eastern District
Margaret died in 1997:
HURN MARGARET INSCH 78 mms GELLIE 1997 321/ 95 Bucksburn
Her birth:
MILNE MAGGIE INSCH F 1919 168/2 110 St Machar
Is her husband the son of Jane/Jeannie Newlands? Jane's son Joseph died in Bucksburn in 1980 - death already posted.
Not that that's any help at all with Dolly!
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
18 Oct 2020 22:54 |
ArgyllGran the information on Joseph Hurn looks correct. I did come across a Georgina McKenzie known as Dolly but can’t find it now.
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2020 10:21 |
A child named Dorothy May Hurn was born in Aberdeen in 1953 - but of course isn't the woman in the 1958 photo.
Possible siblings of Dorothy May are Charles 1952, George 1954, Graham 1955, and John Milne Hurn in 1949.
All born in Aberdeen Northern District.
I think these are the children of Margaret Milne and Joseph Hurn, as in my previous post.
Not sure where that takes us - if anywhere!
Your mention of Georgina McKenzie reminds me that yesterday I noticed the marriage of a Dorothy McKenzie to a Charles Milne in 1958, and wondered if that could be connected , either throught the McKenzie side or the Milnes. Bit of a long shot, though, to put it mildly.
This looks like her death [ also listed as McKenzie ]:
MILNE DOROTHY 62 mms MACKAY 1993 300/ 257 Aberdeen
|
|
ArgyllGran
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2020 11:26 |
Re Dorothy May Hurn 1953 -
I don't see any marriage or death for her on SP - though of course she may have done neither.
However, there's the marriage of a Dorothy M Hurn to an Alexander Thomson in 1989 in Hull reg district.
That made me think of Grimsby Docks - although that photo was a long time before.
And of course it's far too random to assume she's the same Dorothy - or has any connection to your family.
2003-2008 ER, there's a Dorothy M (of approx the right age) and Alexander Thomson living at a couple of Aberdeenshire addresses - again too much of an assumption, but maybe worth keeping in mind.
When Dorothy and her siblings and parents are living at 22c Manor Avenue in 1975, at no 41 there's a family of Thomsons, including an Alexander - but it's a very common name.
Joseph and Margaret (nee Milne) are also at 22c Manor Avenue in 1960. In 1955 they're at 27 Logie Avenue.
_______________
Grasping at tenuous links to any Dorothy or Dolly - in case she's not a relative but only a friend - in 1960 at no 18 Manor Avenue there are Dorothy and Charlotte Ross, and no 24 there are Dorothy J and Alexander McKenzie.
The McKenzies are still at no 24 in 1975 (when Margaret and Joseph are still at 22) - now with children Gordon A, Helen, and James.
As neither the McKenzies nor Hurns have chhildren listed with them in 1965, but do in 1975, I assume that the parents would be roughly the same age, so likely to be friends - as well as living next door to each other. So Dorothy McKenzie seems a good possibility for "Dolly" - and might even be a relative through the McKenzie side.
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2020 12:51 |
Thanks ArgyllGran, some great information there, thank you. I'll mention it to my G Uncle, he did go up to Woodside to visit, but his memory not as good as it used to be. Shame they can't remember Dolly's Surname.
Thanks again for help, much appreciated.
Meg
|
|
Megs Dicky Island
|
Report
|
19 Oct 2020 14:24 |
Thought I'd do a search on all Jane Hurn's children to see if any of them had a daughter called Iris. Looks like Gladys Margaret Hurn had a daughter Iris Elsie Paterson 1935. Could Gladys be Dolly?
I've also added a new photo to my Ancestry of Iris, Jane, Ron and Dolly.
|