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My husband has a DNA connection to a tree but cannot make the actual link, so please ............does anyone have any family links to (on the 1939 register in Castle Ward, Northumberland) John R Robinson born 5/4/1881, Isabella (nee Hay) Robinson born 24/12/1887? John and Isabella married in Castle Ward in 1918. They have a Leslie Robinson born (we think) on 13/7/1920 but can't quite read the date. Is Leslie their son and who are the parents of John R. Robinson please? I've been looking for hours and hours and hours but getting nowhere to link these people with my husbands DNA family. Many thanks, Thema

To find links on GR, look in ‘search all member trees’.

Look for Leslie’s birth on freebmd to find out MMN

For John’s father’s name, you need a copy of his marriage cert

To help us, please C&P transcription of the 1939 register to which you refer

It is very unlikely that anyone connected to the family will see your post.
If you can’t read the birthdate then the answer maybe to buy the birth certificate.

Once you have found the birth of John R Robinson you can use the GRO website to find his mothers maiden name. Then use the Freebmd website to find a marriage.

It can be very difficult to actually spot link from a dna match. The smaller the cms the worse it gets,
Added: I agree with the transcriber that it is 13 th July but can’t see the year. If you look at how the figures are written elsewhere it definitely seem to be a 3.

1939 Register
42 Coach Lane, Hazlerigg, Castle Ward R.D., Northumberland, England
1939 register badge
View original record
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
John R Robinson 05 Apr 1881 Male General Labourer Married 130 1
Isabella Robinson 24 Dec 1887 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 130 2
George C Hay 06 Mar 1913 Male Coal Mine Labourer(Above) Single 130 3
John R Robinson 22 Jan 1920 Male Assistant Salesman To General Dealer Single 130 4

The record for this person is officially closed.


and 1921 for them.

1921 Census Of England & Wales
43 Coach Lane, Hazlerigg, Dinnington & Brenkley, Northumberland, England
1921 census badge
View original record
Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
John R Robinson Head
Male 1882 39 Sunderland, Durham, England Coal Miner, (Shifter) Seaton Burn Coal Coy Ltd
Isabella Robinson Wife
Female 1887 34 Durham, Durham, England Home Duties -
George C Hay Step-son
Male 1913 8 Hazlerigg, Northumberland, England - -
William K Hay Step-son
Male 1915 5 Hazlerigg, Northumberland, England - -
John R Robinson Son
Male 1920 1 Hazlerigg, Northumberland, England



ROBINSON, JOHN ROBERT BELL
GRO Reference: 1920 S Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 722

HAY, GEORGE CHARLTON BELL
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 699

HAY, WILLIAM KITCHENER BELL
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 621

>>ROBINSON, LESLIE BELL
GRO Reference: 1923 S Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 632

???
1911 Census For England & Wales
5 Windt Street Hazlerigg Dudley S O Northnd, Dinnington, Northumberland, England

Household members (4 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Richard Robinson Head
Single Male 29 1882 Coal miner shifter below ground Durham Sunderland
William J A Thompson Stepbrother
Single Male 20 1891 Coal miner putter below ground Durham Sunderland
James Thompson Grandfather
Married Male 63 1848 Bootmaker Durham Durham City
Benjamin Shephard Boarder
Single Male 20 1891 Coal miner shifter below ground Durham Sunderland


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Ford Dock Yard, Waterside, Sunderland, Durham, England

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Robinson Head
Widower Male 64 1827 Shipwright West Boldon, Durham, England
Elizabeth Robinson Daughter
Single Female 27 1864 - Monkwearmouth, Durham, England
Robert Robinson Son
Widower Male 35 1856 Stone mason Monkwearmouth, Durham, England
Martha Robinson Granddaughter
- Female 12 1879 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
John Rich Robinson Grandson
- Male 10 1881 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England
Robert E Robinson Grandson
- Male 6 1885 Scholar Sunderland, Durham, England


ROBINSON, JOHN RICHARD RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 606

ROBINSON, ROBERT ERNEST RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 548

ROBINSON, MARTHA RICHARDSON
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND Volume 10A Page 671



Marriages Sep 1877   (>99%)
BLAKEY  Thomas Cordner    Sunderland  10a 638a   Scan available - click to view
FOSTER  Elizabeth  Sunderland  10a 638a   Scan available - click to view
>>RICHARDSON  Martha  Sunderland  10a 638a   Scan available - click to view
>>ROBINSON  Robert  Sunderland  10a 638a

??
Deaths Sep 1889   (>99%)
Robinson  Martha  31  Sunderland  10a 330

Isabella Bell must have been a widow when she married in 1918.

First name(s)  Isabella
Spouse's birth year  -
Last name  Bell
County  Durham
Sex  Female
Country  England
Birth year  -
Document type  Parish Registers
Marriage year  1906
Record set  Durham Marriages
Marriage date  18 Aug 1906
Category  Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Place  Heworth, St Alban
Subcategory  Parish Marriages
Spouse's first name(s)  William
Collections from  England, Great Britain
Spouse's last name  Hay


I believe this to be her family, mother Eleanor nee Gray.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Oatmeal Street, Heworth, Gateshead, Durham, England

Household members (4 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Bell Head
Married Male 29 1862 Coal miner Gateshead, Durham, England
>>Ellen Bell Wife
Married Female 28 1863 - Heworth, Durham, England
Margaret H Bell Daughter
Single Female 3 1888 - Heworth, Durham, England
Ellen Bell Daughter
- Female 1 1890 - Heworth, Durham, England


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Robsons Cottages, Heworth, Gateshead, Durham, England

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Gray Head
Married Male 52 1829 Quarryman Windy Nook, Durham, England
Eleanor Gray Wife
Married Female 49 1832 - Bigges Main, Northumberland, England
Isabella Gray Daughter
Single Female 20 1861 Dressmaker (2 app) Windy Nook, Durham, England
>>Eleanor Gray Daughter
Single Female 18 1863 - Windy Nook, Durham, England
Mary Gray Daughter
Single Female 14 1867 - Kenton, Northumberland, England
Lizzie Alice Gray Daughter
Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Kenton, Northumberland, England


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Stone Street, Heworth, Gateshead, Durham, England

Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Eleanor Goay Head
Widow Female 59 1832 - Little Benton, Northumberland, England
Isabella Goay Daughter
Single Female 30 1861 Dressmaker Durham, England
Lizzie A Goay Daughter
Single Female 20 1871 Dressmaker Durham, England
Isabella Bell Granddaughter
Single Female 4 1887 - Durham, England
Thomas Gy Bell Grandson
- Male 0 1891 - Durham, England

1911 Census For England & Wales
46 Coach Lane Hazlerigg Dudley So Northd, Dinnington, Northumberland, England

Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Hay Head
Married Male 27 1884 Coal hewer miner Windy Nook Durham
Isabella Hay Wife
Married Female 24 1887 - Windy Nook Durham
Annie Gray Hay Daughter
- Female 2 1909 - Hazerigg Northumberland


HAY, ANNIE GRAY BELL
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 381
HAY, ELEANOR BELL BELL
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in CASTLE WARD Volume 10B Page 348

Many thanks for all your thoughts, everyone. So good of you to tale time to browse Family Tree stuff on New Year's Eve! Many of the facts and figures are so comprehensive, for which I appreciate. .Lots of data for me to study in due course.

Some of the routes I have tried already but some ideas are new. "Alviegal" I have the 1939 record that you have focused on but ......on my record, all the facts you have guided me for the people are as I have except, my record shows Leslie Robinson as being born 13/7/21 not Leslie R Robinson born 22/1/1920. I wonder if it would be possible for two versions of the 1939 register? I wouldn't have thought so but maybe this happened occasionally?

Leslie R Robinson (junior and senior) seems to appear here and there but for me it's John Robinson born 13/7/21 (as showing on my version of the 1939 record) who is elusive.......maybe one day in 2023. Happy New Year to you all

oops sorry, the version of the 1939 register that is mentioned above is showing the son as John R. Robinson born January 1920 not Leslie Robinson born 1921 as my document. That's the bit I can't work out

Leslie, the son of John and Isabella was born in 1923….record posted earlier this evening

People whose deaths have not been picked up have their names blanked out on the 1939 register

There was only one register………….

If you have a birth date of 1921, it’s not the son of John & Isabella

Although there's only one 1939 Register, ancestry and FMP don't always show the same details.
FMP tends to be more up-to-date as regards closed or open records.

Alviegal probably posted the record as shown on FMP.

Here is Ancestry's "version":

Leslie Robinson
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Leslie Robinson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 Jul 1920 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 42 [Coach Lane ]
Residence Place: Castle Ward, Northumberland, England
Line Number: 20
Schedule Number: 130
Sub Schedule Number: 5
Enumeration District: Gdhe
Borough: Castle Ward
Registration district: 564/4
Household Members (Name) Age
John R Robinson 58
Isabella Robinson 52
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed.
Leslie Robinson 19


Leslie's date of birth is partially obscured by the black strip hiding the details on the line above.
"July" is clear, but the year is almost entirely hidden, and the day could be 13 or 15, on the Ancestry image.
.
The transcriber has guessed at 1920 as the year of birth just from the lower part of the final two figures - but it could equally well be 23 rather than 20 (and probably is) . Having said that, years of birth are frequently not entirely a year or two "out" on the Register.

Alviegal posted Leslie's 1923 birth record.


ADDED:
Interestingly, although the Ancestry transcription is as above, the image shows that the record on the line below Isabella is NOT closed.

George C Hay, 6 March 1913, single, coal mine labourer [ above ground ].

It's actually hard to tell which record is closed, when looking at the image on Ancestry, as the black strip slants across both lines.

The name of the person above Leslie is hidden (John R Robinson on the FMP transcription) , but his occupation, marital status, and part of his DOB can be seen. (1920, and one can guess at the 22nd of some month beginning with J, from partial figures showing)

On Leslie's line, his name is visible, but not his occupation, and only part of his DOB and marital status - though even without knowing the DOB, it's clear he's single, just from the bottom curve of the S.

Two possible births for John R Robinson snr in AMJ1881…..you’ll need to know what the ‘R’ represents to determine which is likely to be relevant

However, as the son’s second forename was Robert, odds are that the father’s was the same.

How far back have you gone with researching your husband’s antecedents? Ignoring DNA and using actual records…………….

thanks for the new thoughts: to give a bit more detail as to my query: my husband was born in 1953 to unmarried mother in Charing Cross Hospital, London. Just before she died, she said to him "by the way, your father's name was Leslie Robinson, he turned up at the hospital to see you but I told him to clear off" (or words to that effect, I guess!). Looking back, my husband agrees that he was silly to not ask more questions at the time but his Mum didn't really want to talk about it.

It is one of his dreams and mine to be honest, to find his Dad. He has done a DNA test on Ancestry and it has linked him to a tree; the contact person is very helpful but though they have a Robinson on their tree they cannot not link is a Leslie Robinson.

ErikaH, we have added nobody to my husband's tree apart from his father's name.

Sometimes one just has to keep on waiting for the right person to do a test.

Unless your husband was told where Leslie came from you really have no idea where to look for him.

Have you thought about uploading 5he results to another site. Possibly My Heritage, which is probably not free. Living dna is interesting as they sort out the areas your ancestors come from much more finely.

Unfortunately, a large number of Leslie Robinsons were born in England/Wales alone between 1910 and 1936 (guessing a reasonable timeframe).

Is there a reason you've picked the one in Northumberland?
Where was your m-i-l living in 1952?

(Not that that helps, as Leslie wasn't necessarily a native of wherever it was.)

As soon as I read the bit about the hospital and the mother telling the father to go away....................

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1400411

One post per topic is the site rule, Thelma, for very valid reasons

You haven't - as far as one can tell - returned to look at the help given on the previous thread...................

To complicate things further, according to the Electoral Rolls on Ancestry there were several Leslie Robinson living in London around that time.

You said on your other thread that you OH showed up as 45% Scottish.

Have you rechecked this as some changes have been made since they originally put up charts showing which parent gave you which dna.

Added: how strong is the dna match?

EricaH, I have looked at your suggestions already but with no success to link the DNA tree to Tom, my husband. The youngest Robinson on the DNA tree is John in 1879, so that is too early for me to make contact now.

ArgyllGran, I picked Northumberland because the John Robinson (1879) on that tree is from Northumberland and also his father, John Robinson.(1845-1915) On his DNA result, it showed that Tom's father was 44% Scottish or Borders/Northumberland so this fitted in fine......I am a member of Ancestry and have done extensive work, trying to connect a Leslie Robinson to the tree but with no success. This site and Ancestry are the only ones that I am members of but we can easily get to The National Archives at Kew which would give us free access to other ancestry research sites. It might be worth a visit in the next couple of weeks