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Samuel is on my threads born 1854 in London died in Manchester 1924.Elizabeth his first wife with the help of the community I know about her family.What I can't pin point is she is on the 1891 Census but not the 1901 in the 10 years there is a few Elizabeth's deaths similar but not sure which one is her.Elizabeth nee, Howard

Previous thread about Elizabeth:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1395880

From that, and from other threads about Samuel (links contained in the thread above), Samuel remarried in 1905:

Marriages Dec 1905

BRINDLEY Minnie Manchester 8d 364
ROGERS Samuel Manchester 8d 364


For ease of reference, repeating the 1891 census here:

1891
Name: Samuel Rogers
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Rogers
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 11b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 258
Folio: 139
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Rogers 36, Cabman / Groom
Elizabeth Rogers 40
George Rogers 11
Isaac Rogers 12
Hassa Rogers 10
Esther Rogers 1

From 2011 - https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1260080

Don't know if there's any more recent

Posted on there - OP says Samuel and Minnie married 1905, Manchester.
Samuels Father Isaac a horse dealer
Samuel aged 4 months is posters Father.

1911, for our reference:
Address: 11 Higher Temple St C on M M/c
County: Lancashire

ROGERS, Samuel Head Married M 45 1866 Coachmaker London City
ROGERS, Minnie Wife Married 7 years F 38 1873 Handley
BRIDLEY, Arhur Stepson Single M 14 1897 Schoolboy Handley
BRINDLEY, Glaydas Stepdaughter Single F 11 1900 Schoolgirl Handley
ROGERS, Samuel Son Single M 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 Manchester
LEE, Rose Lodger Single F 23 1888 Mill Girl Glasgow
MCNULTY, Thomas Lodger Single M 33 1878 Coachman Ireland

Registration District: Chorlton Sub District: Chorlton upon Medlock
Enumeration District: 5 Parish: South Manchester
-------------------------

Found a more recent thread, last updated 2017 - https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1339253

From that it would appear Samuel actually born 1854 and initially married Elizabeth Howard in 1875 Bethnal Green. Father Isaac a horse Dealer.

Family name originally Rodrigues.

----------------

The 1891 census shows the family -

Name: Samuel Rogers
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Rogers
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 11b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 258
Folio: 139
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Rogers 36, Cabman / Groom
Elizabeth Rogers 40
George Rogers 11
Isaac Rogers 12
Hassa Rogers 10
Esther Rogers 1

Doesn't look as though the 1901 census was found

--------------------------
Then a 2021 thread -https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1395880

and also 2012 -https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1310799

So many threads - and the site guidelines say “one per topic’

Please DO NOT start any more on this couple

Thank you everyone Minnie was.Sams.second wife my gran and granddad Elizabeth is the one I wanted.to know when she died but I cant find that.I know it's between 1891 and 1901 .

Yes, we know Elizabeth is the one you're interested in, but it's often helpful for us to know about the surrounding history, as we can sometimes approach "sideways", via somebody else.

How do you know it was by 1901?

Have you found Samuel in 1901? Or any of the children listed in 1891?

I haven't studied all your threads in detail, but I don't think we've found anything for Samuel between 1891 and 1905, so Elizabeth could still have been alive up to 1905.
Or do you know differently?

Look at freebmd for the area in which she was living in 1891, and isolate any records with approximately matching age.

Was Samuel definitely a widower when he married Minnie?

First marriage....

Name Elizabeth Howard
Gender Female
Marriage Age 23
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1852
Marriage Date 3 Feb 1875
Marriage Place Saint Bartholomew, Bethnal Green: Coventry Road, Tower Hamlets, England
Father Thomas Howard
Spouse Samuel Rodgers..........age 21

Yes, unless he was lying.

Samuel Rogers
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name Samuel Rogers - widower, general dealer
Gender Male
Marriage Age 42
Event Type Marriage
Birth Year abt 1863
Marriage Date 30 Dec 1905
Marriage Place Manchester, St John, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears Manchester
Father Isaac Rogers
Spouse Minnie Brindley
Reference Number GB127.M403/6/3/59

Wonder when and why he moved to Manchester?

Seems he lied about his age………….

What happened to his children with Elizabeth?

In 1921, he gave his age as 62 yrs 4mths……..

Esther may have died:

ROGERS, ESTHER mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 287

Deaths Dec 1892 (>99%)
Rogers Esther 3 Whitechapel 1c 224



"Hassa" is, I think, Asher:

ROGERS, ASHER mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 328

If so, he may have been listed twice in 1891:

Asher Rogers
in the 1891 England Census
Name Asher Rogers
Gender Male
Age 9
Relationship Boarder
Birth Year 1882
Birth Place Spitalfields, London, England
Civil parish Bethnal Green
Residence Place London, Bethnal Green, London, England
Registration district Bethnal Green
Sub registration district Bethnal Green East
ED, Institution or Vessel 13a
Neighbors
Piece 271
Folio 10
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Hart 48 Head
Maria J Hart 42 Wife
Ernest J Hart 17 Son
Owen Hart 7 Son
Kathleen Hart 4 Daughter
Martha Lord 29 School Staff (Staff)
John Tuman 20 School Staff (Staff)
Sarah Turner 24 Servant
Rose Allen 16 Servant
Jane Cooke 24 Servant



ROGERS, ISAAC mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 320

ROGERS, GEORGE mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 334


I fear we're probably going over old ground here, with so many previous threads.

It's interesting that in spite of CofE marriages for Samuel, most of the children seem to have Jewish names.

Can't see any of them in 1901.

Isaac, aged 11, is also at the same Jewish school as Asher in 1891, in spite of also being listed with Samuel and Elizabeth.

Isaac Rogers
in the 1891 England Census
Name Isaac Rogers
Gender Male
Age 11
Relationship Boarder
Birth Year 1880
Birth Place Spitalfields, London, England
Civil parish Bethnal Green
Residence Place London, Bethnal Green, London, England
Registration district Bethnal Green
Sub registration district Bethnal Green East
ED, Institution or Vessel 13a
Neighbors
Piece 271
Folio 10
Household Members (Name)

Probably already found, but I don't plan on scrolling through countless threads........easier to look for facts

BRINDLEY, GLADYS LEADBETER
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 211

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Brindley Arthur Elijah Stoke T. 6b 268
Leadbetter Minnie Stoke T. 6b 268

Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
Brindley Arthur Elijah 30 Stoke T. 6b 13

Until and unless Samuel can be found in 1901, no way of knowing whether or not Elizabeth was alive then.

Possible marriage for George ??? I can't see George in 1901 or 1911.

One of the witnesses is a Louisa Howard - though that may just be a coincidence.

George Rogers
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name George Rogers (carman)
Gender Male
Marriage Age 26
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1878
Marriage Date 1 Feb 1904
Marriage Place Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green: Saint Matthew's Row, Tower Hamlets, England
Father Samuel Rogers (horse dealer)
Spouse Emma Carter
Register Type Parish Register


That couple had a daughter Minnie Louisa in 1906, by which time George was a dart board maker.

I don't see her in 1911 or 1921.

In 1932 Minnie Louisa married William Charles Cheshire. George is listed as a labourer.
In 1939 Minnie and William are in Shoreditch.



Minnie died in 1985, and William in 1988.

In 1901 the Brindley family are living in Stoke on Trent

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
8, St Mark Street, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Emma Wetton Head Widow Female 60 1841 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Arthur Brindley Son Married Male 30 1871 Potters presser Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Albert Brindley Son Single Male 28 1873 Carter Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Minnie Brindley Daughter-in-law Married Female 28 1873 Potters transferer Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Minnie Oldacre Grand daughter Single Female 17 1884 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Arthur Brindley Grand son Single Male 3 1898 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Gladys Brindley Grand daughter Single Female 1 1900 - Shelton, Staffordshire, England
Leonard Brindley Grand son Single Male 0 1901 - Shelton, Staffordshire, England


As ErikaH has posted -

Arthur Elijah Brindley had married Minnie Leadbetter in 1894 in Stoke RD

Arthur Elijah Brindley died aged 30 in Q2 1901 in Stoke on Trent RD

Did Samuel and Minnie meet in Stoke or Manchester or points between - Elizabeth Rogers could have died anywhere or just gone her separate way from Samuel.

There was a suggestion in one of those earlier threads that the Rogers/Rodrigues family were 'Travellers' and certainly the Jewish connection was discussed.

When they married, Samuel and Minnie gave addresses in Hardman Street, Manchester................he at 25, she at 24.

MINNIE and Sam was my dad's parents he was the only child he was 14 when his dad died as I was 13 when he died .So getting info is difficult and as usual secrets and lies.My friends at Genes as usual find out more than I could and I appreciate all the work
Thank you all very much.

We know that Elizabeth is not related to you, and unless there is a chance that she was not deceased when Samuel married Minnie, it doesn’t matter too much when she actually died.

No-one has been able to find any of the Rogers family in 1901, so we can’t even guess when - or where - she may have died.