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1871 just wondering if the age has been transcribed wrong given the age of the parents and in the right registration district Name: Grace Martyn Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Henry Mother's Name: Jane Gender: Female Where born: Westminster Civil Parish: St Margaret Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View Image Registration district: St George Hanover Square Sub-registration district: St Margaret Westminster ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 480 Household Members: Name Age Grace Martyn 10 Henry Martyn 25 Jane Martyn 28 Mary Martyn 52 Maureen yes I think that should be 10months

Oh dear! So do I. Marriage cert for 1895 shows Grace's father as deceased. There is a death for a Henry in 1883 aged 67, Bethnal Green, which could be him. I don't know her mother's maiden name.

1881 I hope this is not Grace Name: Grace Martyn Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relation: Scholar Gender: Female Where born: London, London, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: St Pancras County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Haverstockhill St Pancras Orphan Working Sch Education: Employment status: View Image Occupation: Scholar Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Kentish Town ED, institution, or vessel: Orphan Working School

Maureen It's a strong possibility. The image says she was a dressmaker, so she could have worked with George in the drapery. Nothing for occupation for her on marriage cert. nor 1901, but 1901 says she was born in Westminster, admittedlt not too far from Lambeth. Thanks for your help. Off to bed now. Take care Ron

1891 how about this one? Name: Grace Marlyn Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where born: Lambeth, Kent, England Civil Parish: Lambeth Ecclesiastical parish: Camberwell St James County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: dressmaker Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Lambeth Sub-registration district: Kennington Second ED, institution, or vessel: 24a Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Kathleen Garner 21 Janet Isabelle 39 Kate Leacock 48 Grace Marlyn 20 Agnes H Tompkins 5 Catherine E Tompkins 32 Dorothy A Tompkins 4 Edward F Tompkins 31 Edward J Tompkins 1 Florence S K Tompkins 7 Ron, As I could not find anything obvious for George I then looked for the most outrageous ones. Maureen

Maureen That's brilliant. It's definitely him. The image reads Swindell and other bits fit. How on earth did you find that????? Ron ps Marriage cert says Clerk but 1901 says Drapery Manager, so, perfect. Thanks so much

What is the occupation of George on the marriage cert? Maureen

Ron have you got Ancestry as I think this is worth a look 1891 Name: George T Sarioble Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Islington, London, England Civil Parish: Islington Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: London City County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: drapery ??? Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Islington Sub-registration district: Islington South ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Blanche Evans 9 Edith N Evans 15 Edward C P Evans 6 Suren Evans 43 Lucy L Harbour 38 Hugh Hedges 28 Elanor Mallet 34 George T Sarioble 22 Really not sure what the name is supposed to be but could be read as Swindale or Swindele ?? Maureen

UPDATE I now have the marriage cert for George Thomas Swindell and Grace (nee Martyn). This confirms the following from the previous messages on this query. 1. The 1881 census (first entry) that Georgina (Skinner) found on 4/7/07 is the correct one. 2. The 1871 census that Athena found on4/7/07 is also correct. 3.I have confirmed that the marriage that Georgina found for George Thomas Swindell and Charlotte Bonner was correct. I would be grateful for some help on the following I can't find George Thomas Swindell b 1869 (Islington) on the 1891 census. Equally I can't find Grace Martyn (George's wife to be in 1895) b 1870 (Westminster) on the 1891 census. Any help with birth of George (my original query) would be much appreciated. Sorry if I've gone on a bit Regards Ron

Thanks you two I will follow those up as well. There is somebody on this site who is researching the Swindells and I'm waiting for a response from her. She may have further information. Most grateful for your help. Take care. Ron

Well done, Georgina - that looks very promising, doesn't it? Athena

Hello again Just had a look at that 1881 entry mentioned above and the actual page does not say that Maria is the mother! I think this is the same family as from the 1871 I gave above - see below Sarah Swindell, head, 74 George Swindell, son, widower, 42, staff agent Maria Swindell, dau, 36 George Swindell, grandson, 12 Mary J, grandau, 9 So - we can see that George Swindell 42 is a widower and the 12 year old boy is more than likely his (from wife Charlotte on the 1871 census). Will be good if you do get that cert - you can rule this lot in or out then. Regards - Athena

Could this be his parents marriage & George's birth? Marriages Dec 1871 (>99%) >>>Bonner Charlotte Islington 1b 484 Guy Emma Islington 1b 484 Harlock Leonard Islington 1b 484 >>>Swindell George Thomas Islington 1b 484 Births Dec 1868 (>99%) BONNER George Thomas S Islington 1b 333 Georgina.

Hi Athena Thanks for that. Yes, I have the marriage ref so will send for the cert. Regards Ron

Georgina Had a quick look for birth of George Martyn in range 1865 to 1875, in case your idea was correct, but nothing found. I'll have to order the marriage cert, as Reggie suggests, and hope the father is shown. Thanks all for your help Ron

On the 1871 there is this family living in Islington: George Swindell, 34, head, clerk (rest of it I can't read) Charlotte Swindell, 30, wife Ellen Bower (or Bowness?), 10, sister George Swindell, 2, son b Middx If you were to get the marriage cert for George and Grace, which would give his father's name and occ, it will be easier to determine which family your George belongs to. Do you have the marriage cert refs yet in order to get the cert? Athena

Good point Reggie By the way how are you? Ron

Registration wasn't compulsory until 1875..........he may simply not have been registered! His father's name (if known) will be on the marriage cert Reg

Georgina Unfortunately, at the moment I don't know his parents' names. You may have a point about Grace (maiden name Martyn, born June quarter 1870 in Westminster) marrying a Swindell after George was born.

Not sure about this one? Could his mother have married a Swindell after he was born? Births Mar 1869 (>99%) Swindells Thomas Islington 1b 364 Georgina.