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In 1899 I have Elizabeth with Patrick Uriell at 26 Summer Street Liverpool. John Gavin death i have Jun 1898 Liverpool 8B 102

Hi OC, glad you had a good sleep. On the MC 1885 it has John Gavin age 24yrs 30 Doncaster Street Liverpool, father Patrick Gavin, labourer. Elizabeth Duffy age 22yrs 50 laliesaw Street ( not sure on that 1st L though, it's hard to read) father Thomas Duffy, labourer. Marriage at the register office in the district of Liverpool. Witnesses, again these are hard to read, George Brand and Alice Birndon.

Right, brain is refreshed somewhat, lol. Can you find John and Elizabeth Duffy in 1891? What addresses are on the MC you have for John and Elizabeth Duffy? who are the witnesses, and where did the couple marry? I am guessing the family are RC. Now John senior, 1851, may not have been registered, but I bet my life he was baptised. If you can narrow down the area where he lived, you may be able to work out which Church he attended and therefore which one he was baptised in. I think I would try to collect a full set of census records for every John Gavin, born around 1851 and try to eliminate them one by one. Obviously, ones with a father called Patrick will be more interesting. I think its going to be a bit of a slog though. Good luck. OC

ok OC. Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for your help and have a nice sleep. Sweet dreams.

At the moment I can't think of any way you can go back with certainty on this one. I will have to sleep on it! OC

Elizabeth Duffy then went on to marry a Patrick Uriell in Liverpool.

My husband's nan thought he was born in Ireland...it's her that wants to find this out.... the name that get's passed down is John Gavin. The one i'm definate about is John Gavin born 24/02/1899. Parents John Gavin/Elizabeth Duffy - this is the John she thought was born in Ireland but it say's on records he was born in Liverpool. I've found out that Catherine Gavin sister of John Gavin 1899 1st child was called Patrick.

Wait a minute though - you don't know where he was born, as you don't have his BC. There are a number of John Gavins born between 1850 and 1852 - none of them in Liverpool. Can you see a naming pattern in any of YOUR John Gavin's children? OC

From Lancsbmd John Gavin, born 1861, Oldham, mmn McAnee (which could easily be a mistran of McAnalley) Another son, James Patrick born 1865, same place, same mmn. So, do Francis and Mary have a son called James Patrick as well, on the 1871? If your John Gavin was DEFINITELY born in Liverpool, then his father isnt Francis. OC

Hi June, that's the 1 i have. x

Thanks OC. It must be Patrick then that's the father. I don't know about the other son you mentioned.

Hi OC, yes John Gavin was born c1861.

Joanna Sorry - of course you don't know the mother's maiden name, doh. Found this marriage Francis Gavin to Mary McAnalley, 1857, St Anne's, Liverpool. Does this couple have a son John in 1861? OC

1881 census Name: Francis Gavin Age: 40 Estimated birth year: abt 1841 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Addison St 16 Court 2 House Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Dock Labourer Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: Dale Street ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ann Gavin 18 Bridget Gavin 16 Francis Gavin 40 John Gavin 20 Mary Gavin 44 Mary A. Gavin 14 Michael Gavin 22 is this John that you have ? June x

1871 census Name: John Gavin Age: 9 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation: Son Father's name: Patrick Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool Civil parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 170 Household Members: Name Age John Gavin 9 Margret Gavin 14 Patrick Gavin 50 Ireland /Labourer/ Married June x

Thanks June. Could you find out when he died? I want to find out where Francis Gavin came into the equation. x

I don't know. i thought that it would say on marriage cert but it doesn't.

John was born in Liverpool, c1861. Thanks June x

What was his mother's maiden name? There are umpteen Patrick Gavin marriages in the timescale! OC

Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Duffey Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 319 Gavin John Liverpool 8b 319 this is the marriage so what dob and place of birth for John June x