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Ok. I'll get onto that. Thanks for all your help Georgina. I really appreciate it.

Joanna I think you need to get their marriage certificate otherwise we could be going round in circles, the certificate will at least give you his age and his fathers details which will help narrow the search. Afraid I am off to bed now so happy hunting. Goodnight. Georgina.

Just by Lichfield, that's where my husband's parents live. Very small world. I thought you were about 300 miles away!!

Joanna my sister lives in Fradley thats not very far from Burton, small world. Georgina.

You don't think that there was a bit of predjucise(can't spell that word) and John pretended he was from Liverpool? Or is this going up the wrong tree completly? All sorts of things are going through my head now!!

I'm only in Burton on Trent!! Used to live in Limerick but this was before i knew this history...otherwise i would of looked it up whilst i was over there!!

Joanna I am from Birmingham but both my parents were from Dublin. Georgina.

Where were you from in Ireland?

Victor & Lilian died young... Deaths Sep 1895 (>99%) Gavin Victor Alexander 8 Liverpool 8b 31 Deaths Dec 1898 (>99%) Gavin Lilian 10 Liverpool 8b 129 Georgina.

I 've heard about the irish aswell lol!! She remembers Catherine, John (her father) and Margaret. Then when Elizabeth remarried to Patrick she remembers Agnus and Ellen (Uriell).

Joanna that was my next question, does your Nan remember children with those names. I guess that rules them out. It just seems funny that John & Elizabeth didn't have any children in the first 6 years of their marriage, I know how the Irish could breed my parents were Irish & there is 8 of us LOL. Georgina.

What about Victor?

Is the Lilian and Victor supposed to be their children? I know they didn't have any kids with them names.

Maybe why Lilian and Victor aren't on the 1901 census Name: Lilian Gavin Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Year of Registration: 1898 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at Death: 10 DISTRICT: Liverpool (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 129 (click to see others on page) Name: Victor Alexander Gavin Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Year of Registration: 1895 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at Death: 8 DISTRICT: Liverpool (1837-1924) County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 31 (click to see others on page)

You could be right about Lilian, Sue. I'm just confused now.

I thought this may have been them in 1891 (the image says Gavin) but John was not born in Ireland? Name: John Garin Age: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: Dale Street ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Garin 28 John Garin 29 Lillian Garin 2 Victor A Garin 3 Georgina.

You must of had the right one 1st time then. Thank you so much. Now i know a bit more (a lot more!!) i might be able to find his grave. That's all my nan wants and to find where he lived in Ireland so she can go and visit. Thanks again Jo + nan xx

Confused now??? He was born in Ireland but that seems a bit spooky!! He couldn't deny living in Ireland with the accent!!

I cant see another Gavin/Duffy marriage. Georgina.

Thanks Georgina