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I am wondering if anybody can help me. I have a Josiah Bailey b1850 Dover m Annie Sayer in 1885 Dover. I already have a census for 1891/1901 in the name of Johan Barley and Mary Ann and I can't seem to work it out.On 1891 Ages differ (which is not unusual) wifes name is different too plus children Elizabeth 13 Emma 12 Edith 7 and Richard 6 look like they have the surname Sayer. Checked births and that is the correct surname. I am just wondering if she could have been married before as on 1901 Census it is definetly Josiah Bayly (which looks correct) but has him living with Elizabeth who is married now to John Goldsmith and their two children. Trouble is I am not sure which name to look under for marriages. I was wondering if anybody can check this out for me, I have tried a few things but not I'm afraid been very successful. I would like to know for sure if I have the right Josiah. Would appreciate any help that I can get. Julia.

Is this who you mean? 1901: Name: Josiah Bayly Age: 50 Estimated birth year: abt 1851 Relation: Father-in-law Gender: Male Where born: Woolton, Kent, England Civil parish: Dover Ecclesiastical parish: Buckland St Andrews Town: Dover County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Occupation: Registration district: Dover Sub-registration district: St Mary Household Members: Name Age John Goldsmith 33 Elizabeth Goldsmith 24 John Goldsmith 4 James Goldsmith 11 months Josiah Bayly 50

I'm having difficulty with 1891. Exactly how are Josiah's names spelt? Ozi.

Are these the Baileys you have the marriage for? 1891: Name: John W Bailey Age: 25 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Annie Gender: Male Where born: Dover, Kent, England Civil parish: Offham Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael Town: Village County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: School house Occupation: schoolmaster Registration district: Malling Sub-registration district: Wrotham ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age John W Bailey 25 Annie Bailey 25 - b. Kingsdown, Dover Annie G I Bailey 2 - b. Little Brashill, Bucks Ellen Greinlin 16 - servant

john goldmith married Elizabeth Sayer John Goldsmith 1896 Apr-May-Jun Dover Kent Elizabeth Sayer 1896 Apr-May-Jun Dover Kent

Josiah in 1881 Name: Josiah Baily Age: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Gender: Male Where born: Kent, England Civil parish: Vessels County/Island: Royal Navy Country: England Street address: 'euphrates' Education: Occupation: Private Registration district: Royal Navy Sub-registration district: Royal Navy ED, institution, or vessel: Eupliates --------------------------------------------------- 1883 he marries Name: Josiah Bailey Year of Registration: 1885 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep DISTRICT: Dover County: Kent Volume: 2a Page: 1462 Mary Eliza Pay / Annie Sayer

Scarlet have you had any luck with 1891? Ozi.

I was working my way up to it, because like you, i couldnt get back to it from 1901. Do we know he deffo married Annie- or is that supposition? I saw that Johan - he's far too young, isn't he

I saw 1881 & wondered if he might be away in 1891. Can't find these Sayers though. Ozi. Update: I think it's supposition, but I can't find these Valentines either to confirm. Marriages Sep 1885 BAILEY Josiah Dover 2a 1462 PAY Mary Eliza Dover 2a 1462 Sayer Annie Dover 2a 1462 VALENTINE Alfred George Dover 2a 1462

Found it under Jonah!! 1891: Name: Jonah Barley Age: 48 Estimated birth year: abt 1843 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary A Gender: Male Where born: Wootton, Kent, England Civil parish: Buckland Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews Town: Dover County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: 171 Union Rd Occupation: general labourer Registration district: Dover Sub-registration district: Hougham Household Members: Name Age Jonah Barley 48 Mary A Barley 37 Elizabeth Barley 13 Emma Barley 12 Edith E Barley 7 Richard Barley 6 Definitely Bailey as surname for Josiah & Mary A, definitely Sayer for kids.

So, is Josiah/Jonah Barley/Bailey/Bailey , Elizabeth Goldsmith nee Sayers stepfather??

I believe that's what Julia wants to prove. So she wants to know if the Mary A in 1891 was married to a Sayer before Jonah/Johan/Josiah. Ozi.

1881: Name: Richard Sayer Age: 55 Estimated birth year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Goodnestone, Kent, England Civil parish: Buckland in Dover County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: 1 George Street Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Labourer Registration district: Dover Sub-registration district: Hougham ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Richard Sayer 55 Ann Sayer 45 Richard Sayer 26 - son Ann Sayer 28 -daughter Lizzie Sayer 3 - daughter Emmer Sayer 2 - daughter John Sayer 14 - son Henry Brooks 40 - boarder Edward Wakefield 20 - boarder However I believe that Richard jnr is married to Ann jnr with their 2 children, as John comes after this family group on the page. I think the little girls should be grandchildren. Richard jnr is a carpenter. Ozi.

Here's a probability: Marriages Dec 1876 BANKS Mary Ann Dover 2a 1632 Burfield William Arthur Dover 2a 1632 ...>>>GOLDSMITH Mary Ann Dover 2a 1632 ...>>>Sayer Richard Dover 2a 1632 WHEATLEY Emily Caroline Dover 2a 1632 Scary, isn't it? Ozi.

the only Richard say death i can see in Dover is 1901 - could explain the fact that Josiah didnt appear to marry her Name: Richard Sayer Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Year of Registration: 1902 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun Age at Death: 71 DISTRICT: Dover County: Kent Volume: 2a Page: 661 although this could be in 1901 - with the Pains - I'll say so - pain! Name: Richard Sayer < widower Age: 70 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Father-in-law Gender: Male Where born: Canterbury, Kent, England Civil parish: Dover Ecclesiastical parish: Dover Holy Trinity Town: Dover County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration district: Dover Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 223 Household Members: Name Age Annie Pain 31 Annie Pain 5 George Pain 30 George R F Pain 8 Lily Pain 6 Nellie Pain 3 Richard Sayer 70 George Pain 1892 Apr-May-Jun Dover Kent Annie Sayer 1892 Apr-May-Jun Dover Kent

According to Julia he married her in 1885. See her second sentence. I think Edith & Richard may be Baileys. Ozi.

yes, sorry,have lost the plot a bit!

However I think you may be right. That marriage is in 1885. I think it is the other John & Annie I found in 1891. Reasons: 1. Julia's John Bailey's partner is Mary A. 2. There is quite a gap between her daughters, Emma & Edith. 3. She's still registering her son in 1885 as a Sayer. Births Mar 1884 Sayer Edith Ellen Dover 2a 998 Births Jun 1885 Sayer Richard Frederick J Dover 2a 959

Thank you everybody, I did not expect such a response now I will print everything off and check through it, I really appreciate it, I haven't even got time to read it at the moment and give you a better reply, have to sign off else hubby won't get any dinner. Julia

Here's the other couple from the Bailey/Sayer 1885 marriage. 1891: Alfred G Valencin May E abt 1863 Dover, Kent, England Head Buckland Kent 1901: Alfred G Valentine Mary E abt 1864 Dover, Kent, England Head Dover Kent