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Hello all Goodness me you have been doing my work for me while I have been at 'proper' work! Thankfully back earlier than expected as it was a Nigerian wedding and they all went home early as they had to get back to Guildford, so have got a couple of hours to devote to this before I go to bed. Fantastic wedding though with all their brightly coloured robes and the womens wound round high headdresses, and yam porridge is something I never imagined I would like but it's really nice. Well back to the important stuff. Many thanks Maureen for the Word doc you sent today I will have to sit and study that properly tomorrow. Also Brenda thanks for getting on my case too, it's very kind of you all. I think I will put all the relevant people on bits of paper at various years and plot them all out and see who is where and when on which census etc. If I can't get a Thomas Haywood policeman with wife Sarah on any of the other sources then I reckon I could be onto something with it being Kaywood and spelt wrong by the enumerator. Like I said to Maureen that makes it even dodgier for Henry to have played up with a Plod for a Brother in Law. I have made contact on here with a relative of Etheldreda Roper and she is aware of Henry being married to Kezia, just wanted to see where she thinks he is on the 1881 census before I share my theories. After that I will try and put the relevant bits on here so that everyone in future can see it ....in all it's glory. Wonder if he was found out at the time, that would be interesting to know. My Mother's uncle was also a bigamist but that was later in the 1940's or so and he was found out and served time in prison for his offence. Henry was my Great Great Grandfather on my Father's side so as I said before it would seem that I have bigamists coming out of the woodwork. I wonder if the first set of children ever found out about the second, also if my lot ever knew about the first lot? Did Jane know about Henry still being married to Kezia when they married? Or was it all found out which is why they had the second wedding the same quarter that Kezia died? Jane must have known something was afoot to have married Henry twice. Thought I had enough questions when I couldn't find any of them, now I have it has got even worse! Right going off to do a bit of Sherlocking will be back here tomorrow. Tina

Hi Brenda, Thanks for the info. Had already sent info to Tina but we do at least agree with each other. I did find Kezia on 1841 census living as a female servant to a Rector. Maureen

Hi Brenda, I had not spotted the possible family connection to the policeman born Windsor but Tina did as soon as she had seen the image. I am doing a bit more research for Tina on this. Maureen

Hi Tina, Have sent you the image for 1861 census. Hope it is the right family as now a bit concerned about the birth place of Henry G. Never did find the couple on 1851. Maureen

Have sent my email hope it comes through Ok gotta go to bed can't keep my eyes open got sooo much olbas oil on my nightie it's making my eyes run as well as my nose which is not helping..lol night one and all Tina x

Tina, Not sure if you are still online? If you are I can send you the link to Ancestry so you can see the image but would need you email addy by p.m. Will be signing off in 5 minutes Maureen

WOW!!! Maureen, you're good! Congratulations. Margaret

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GONNA WET MYSELF WITH EXCITEMENT NOW.....LOL Never have been able to find the birth of my Great Grandmother or any mention of her on a census anywhere, and it looks like the reason being that the name on her birth certificate and marriage certficate were different as was the name of her sister but both her names were not the same as my Great Grandmother. There is a long trail of dodgy name giving to the census people but I think the reason being that naughty old Henry married my Great Grandmother's mother before Kezia died!!!!!!!!!!!!! and then the same quarter that Kezia died he married my Great Great again......Dirty dog...lol So with the proof I need to start getting sorted it looks very much like I have bigamy on both sides as my Grandfather's brother was a bigamist as well!!!!! Many many thanks to all of you that have helped me on this one....it's exciting isn't it? Will keep you posted. Tina xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

YIPEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1861 Name: Roger Rosser - looks like Kezia ? Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1826 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Henry G Gender: Female Where born: Windsor, Berkshire, England Civil parish: Chelsea Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Chelsea Sub-registration district: Chelsea South ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 77 Household Members: Name Age Edwin E Rosser 1 Ellen K Rosser 6 Henry C Rosser 5 Henry G Rosser 35 - servant Richd H G Rosser 11 Roger Rosser 35 Thomas A Rosser 3 Willm Rosser 9 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 32; Folio: 99; Page: 12; GSU roll: 542560 Some of the children are listed as born Pimlico and others Kentish Town Maureen

OOh Bless you thanks very much for that. I will get in touch with her tomorrow, it sounds promising. If I can get a relative from the first family then I should be able to tie it in with the 2nd and then I will really have a story to tell!!!! Can't believe that I may be lucky enough to have scandal on my Father's side as well as my Mother's. Off to Bedfordshire, once again many thanks, will keep you posted of my finds. Cheers Tina

Tina, I cut & pasted this from the Rootsweb message board. Any help? : 'Beryl Packman' <[email protected]> Subject: [ROPER] Henry Griffith ROPER + Kezia KAYWOOD Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 21:58:44 +0100 Good evening all, Has anyone come across this couple? They were married in 3rd quarter 1848 at St. George Hanover Square, London. Henry died 2nd quarter 1893 aged 66 Kensington. Kezia was born in 1826. Their children were: William John (1852) m. Mary Anne TEMPLE Henry Charles (1856) m. Kate Sarah Ann CLARK Thomas A (1858) Edwin E (1860) Walter (1863) m. Emma Caroline MULLER Alma (1866) m. Edith ? Please get in touch if you see any connection with this family. Best wishes, Beryl.

Do you mean about the 1911 census? I do not agree with the petition. Maureen

Hello again Maureen Yes it is a bit confusing isn't it!! I need to make sure that the Kezia Roper that we have is Henry's Kezia and as they can't be found together on any of the censuses but she never has a husband living with her only her children, I was hoping that maybe Richard Henry Griffith Roper may have been the first child as it would be a big coincidence to be born the year after the wedding and not be the son of Henry Griffith Roper. He was born in 1849 and it was just a long shot that the Richard Roper born 1849 and living in middlesex may have been him. Margaret had a look for Kezia on some of the earlier Censuses but wasn't able to find her. If she could be found either on the 51 or 61 and Richard was living with her then it would be good enough reason for me to start getting certificates. Have you seen the thread about the petition yet?

1861 Name: Richard Roper Age: 12 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Son Father's name: John (Bricklayer) Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Spitalfields, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Spitalfields Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Whitechapel Sub-registration district: Spitalfields ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 49 Household Members: Name Age William Gage 61 Henry Holms 29 Eleanor Roper 6 Elizabeth Roper 41 Emm Roper 15 James Roper 10 John Roper 40 Richard Roper 12 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 266; Folio: 6; Page: 17; GSU roll: 542603. Think I am losing the plot now. Where does Richard fit into this? 1851 same family Name: John Roper Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1821 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Cripplegate, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Botolph Bishopsgate County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: East London Sub-registration district: St Botolph ED, institution, or vessel: 2g Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 180 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Roper 35 Emily Roper 6 Janet R Roper 2 John Roper 30 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1524; Folio: 600; Page: 40; GSU roll: 87858 Maureen

No, don't worry, you're not. There is definitely a Henry E as well, it's his fault for confusing the issue..lol I know where Henry G was in 1881 which is where the skull duggery comes into play, it's the bits before that I need sorted out to prove my theory. I have to prove that THE Kezia Roper that keeps coming up is definitely HIS Kezia Roper. This is why if I could find her with Richard Henry Griffith Roper born 1849 I would be happy. Actually having another look at my odd scraps of paper there is a Richard Roper born abt 1849 middlesex as living in Middlesex on the 1861 on Ancestry. Could you possibly have a quick squint at that for me please to see where he is and if it gives any clues as to whether it's the one that I am looking for?

Uh oh, on Familsearch I just found a marriage of Henry Roper and Ann Sherey, 26 May 1848 in Radipole, Dorset. I'm just confusing the issue, aren't I?

Tina, on the 1881 there's a butler transcribed as Henry E. but when you look at the original I'm sure it's Henry G. he's working for Charles Carr, a banker. Henry is age 55, born Radipole, Dorset.

LOL our thoughts about them being grandchildren crossed in the post....tee hee hee T

Hello again Margaret many thanks for looking for me. Yes I have seen the 1881, she has 6 of her children living with her by the look of it. The eldest William John is married and the only other married one is Mary Anne so I think the 3 youngest are their children as Kezia is 55 by then. What a bummer that they don't show up on the other censuses as I think there are at least 2 other children maybe more. Richard Henry Griffith Roper seems a likely candidate to me as does Ellen Kezia Roper. I should imagine they were in London in 51 and 61 by the places the children were all born and they married in London as well. If only she were on one of those with Richard Henry Griffith Roper then it would seem a done deal to me and I would go about getting the certficates to prove all. Still heyhoe they will turn up somewhere. Cheers Tina

I'm having no luck with 1851 and 61, but did you see Kezia in 1881? She's now got 10 children so he's not far away. Margaret Oops, no, guess some of them are grandchildren, just not labelled properly.