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Weve all seen that one but the parents are wrong - Maryann has told us they are John and Mary Hartley. All Im thinking now is whether we are assuming Briggs and Annie are parents - it doesnt actually say they are - they are son in law and daughter and though it would normally follow the two kids in the grandparents house would be theirs - may be they arent? Which leads to the question, if this was the right boy, where are Mary and John (or possibly Thomas!) Hartley, his parents.

Hi Jen, thanks for replying, it all fits in but the parents names don't match the birth cert. I am at a loss as the birth cert. definately says his parents are John and Mary Hartley. Mary

Heathr I have to agree with you, do you think maybe the parents went off somewhere and the other grandson isn't Ralph's brother but a cousin and Briggs and Annie are the cousins parents. Regards Mary

Well, its the grandparents house so the grandchildren dont NECESSARILY have to belong to he son in law Briggs and his wife Annie though in normal circumstances you would expect that to be the case. To be honest, I think we are grasping at straws here! BTW, what was his fathers occupation on the birth cert???

Briggs Hartley 21 Elizabeth E Hartley 29 James Hartley 34 Margaret Hartley 66 Mary J Hartley 31 Mary J Hartley 16 Briggs in 1891 but no John Not a lot of help

No, I couldnt see him with Briggs but unfortunately I did find a Ralph Briggs Hartley being born - oh - scuppered that one then. Name: Ralph Briggs Hartley Year of Registration: 1893 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Blackburn County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 402 (click to see others on page)

1871 census for Briggs There is a John aged 3 mths Briggs Hartley 1 Elizabeth Hartley 30 Elizabeth Ellen Hartley 9 James Hartley 14 John Hartley 47 John Hartley 3 months John William Hartley 20 Mary Hartley 46 Mary Jane Hartley 12 and parent Mary and John what do you think?

I think that Ralph Briggs Hartley is the boy with Briggs Jennifer.

Hi Ladies, I really can't thank you all enough, would you like to let me know what you have decided, is it Ralph Briggs Hartley? or are we sticking with Ralph with parents John and Mary. Regards Mary

Jenny, we have decided that there are two boys - see the two birth regs. The Briggs Hartley - there is a boy registered as Ralph Briggs Hartley - who would appear to be this chaps son - therefore you can scrub that family off . We still have a birth reg of the other Ralph (I guess no one has looked for a death?) who we assume is the son of your John and Mary but whom we cant find anywhere as yet. Thats why I asked dads job on the birth cert, hoping he may be a soldier or someone who would travel possibly taking the family with him. But dont seem we have that option either now!