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Joyce To make the 1881 easier to understand.....here is the LDS version William TYLER Head M Male 40 Slawston, Leicester, England Beadle (Church Officer) Annie TYLER Wife M Female 33 Chatham, Kent, England Ellen TYLER Daur Female 13 Mnchstr, Lancashire, England Schr John TYLER Son Male 10 Ireland Schr Elizabeth TYLER Daur Female 7 Ireland Schr William TYLER Son Male 5 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Schr Frederick TYLER Son Male 3 Aldershot, Hampshire, England Schr Charles TYLER Son Male 10 m Hollwy, Middlesex, England Dwelling 2 Kinloch St Census Place London, Middlesex, England The two births in Ireland explain the inability to find the family in 1871................. Reg

hi Reg thank you now i no why people could,nt find her death cert as it was ellen morgan nee tyler they just spelt it wrong on marriage cert called her helen,will i find her death cert on the LSD site, joyce

You will find her death registration among the bmd's on Ancestry, where they are all free. The LDS site does not carry the GRO records. Reg

The family were apread around in 1891.......here are two of the sons............ Name: John H Tyler Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where Born: Ireland Civil parish: Clerkenwell Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn Sub registration district: St James Clerkenwell ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age William J F G Forguson 27 Caroline Plumley 26 Elizabeth B Plumley 4 William E Plumley 27 John H Tyler 20 William J Tyler 15 And a third............... Name: Frederick Tyler Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878 Relation: Nephew Gender: Male Where Born: Aldershot, Barraks Civil parish: St Sepulchre Ecclesiastical parish: St Sepulchre Without County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Holborn Sub registration district: Saffron Hill ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Auther Button 2 Henry Button 11 Jane Button 39 Joseph Button 8 William Button 40 William F D Button 14 Frederick Tyler 13 Reg

Mum and one daughter in 1891............ Name: Elizabeth Tyler Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Relation: Daughter Mother's name: Ann Gender: Female Where Born: Ireland Civil parish: Aldershot Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Aldershot County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Registration district: Farnham Sub registration district: Frimley ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ann Tyler 42 ................Widow Elizabeth Tyler 17 Reg

I haven't been able to find Ellen Tyler born Manchester on 1891 census....but I have found this one..................who may or may not be your relation, but is the only one b. Manchester in the right year............ Name: Helen Tyler Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where Born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Bloomsbury St George Ecclesiastical parish: Bloomsbury St George County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: St Giles Sub registration district: St George Bloomsbury ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age James Kemp 23 Lavonia Kemp 21 Harriet Tyler 4 Helen Tyler 23 Harriet is Helen's daughter...............and this is the birth reg'n Name: Harriet Tyler Year of Registration: 1886 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: London City County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 12 Reg

hi Reg the helen you found with daughter was the helen on my grandparents some time ago someone said she had adaughter so i sent for birth cert and got wrong one,but this gets more confusing for me as the 1881 matches up,but helen is the right one on the marriage cert ,do you know why that is and thank you for the other informationso do you think ellen and helen are the same lady have anice weekend joyce

i have looked for helen morgan nee tylers death cert but cant find it,looked under ellen but nothing can anyone help on this one,Reg how can i find out what happen to the little girl harriet tyler as she not mention on her mums marriage to malcolm bonner morgan,thank you joyce ps i no its alot to ask as you have been more than enough helpful but this is the last of the puzzle on dads side R

Joyce, is it possible that Helen / Ellen remarried after Malcolm's death, in which case her death would be under her second married surname? Kate.

And coming back to your original question about William's marriage, if you can't find a birth registration for Helen / Ellen, then you could try getting the birth certificate of one of the younger children, perhaps Frederick, William junior or Charles? Any of those would give you Annie's full name including maiden name, and then you would be able to look for her marriage to William. Although of course she could be Helen's stepmother, but at least once you have her details you will be able to find out. Kate.

hi kate she had harriet before she married malcolm as harriet was born in 1886,helen married malcolm 1892,and macolm died in 1918 joyce

Frederick's birth, I would think Name: Frederick Tyler Year of Registration: 1877 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Farnham County: Hampshire, Surrey Volume: 2a Page: 90 Reg

thank you Reg