Find Ancestors

George Gates was born is Southwark London on 4/8/1914 and died in Truro Cornwall in May 1992, Georges death was registered by his grandson Mark Allen, I am trying to find who was Mark's Mother (George's daughter) and who was George's wife. Any help or advice please, I have been looking and looking but can't find. Many Thanks

where have you looked ,over what time span, and what geographical locations?

I remember you asking how you could find out about Mark. Perhaps you could nudge up that thread, then we would be able to see the full picture. Gwyn

nudge for further help.

I have with my very little knowledge looked on various sites, I have received Georges Death certificate, but didn't know until finding out about my grandmother that George existed, don't know where he spent his childhood only that he was my dad's brother and my dad who died in 1974, could never find him. I have George's Death Certificate and it say's he died and lived in Truro, the person on Death Cert as regestering the Death is down as Grandson, living in Redruth, but I have tried to contact but have had no luck from the telephone numbers I have found or the letter I wrote.

About Grandmothers Death. I KNEW NOTHING MORE ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HER DEATH, BUT WHAT I DID HAVE WAS A BOOK OF LONGFELLOW POETRY THAT HAD BEEN PASSED ONTO ME WHEN MY FATHER DIED, IT HAD BEEN GIVEN TO HIS MOTHER FROM SCHOOL AS A CHILD, IT HAD HER NAME LOUISA SAVAGE AND THE DATE AND PLACE IT WAS GIVEN. I ALSO KNEW THAT SHE HAD BEEN MARRIED TO MY GRANDFATHER ROBERT GATES, AND THAT THEY HAD LIVED IN WALWORTH IN LONDON. BUT WHERE COULD I BEGIN! --- I PUT A NOTICE ON GENES REUNITED AND ASKED FOR HELP TO TRACE THE DATE OF BIRTH OF A LOUISA SAVAGE, AND ALSO THE DATE OF HER DEATH THAT I WAS TOLD HAD OCCURRED WHEN MY DAD WAS ABOUT TWO YEARS OF AGE. I FOUND THE YEAR OF HER DEATH TO HAVE BEEN 1918. I ALSO KNEW HER NAME AT THE TIME OF HER DEATH. I RECEIVED REPLIES FROM A FEW PEOPLE AND THEY MANAGED TO HELP ME TRACE HER DATE OF BIRTH 1895 AND ALSO THE DATE OF DEATH 1918. THEY IN TURN ADVISED HOW TO APPLY FOR COPIES OF HER DEATH CERTIFICATE. I APPLIED FOR A COPY OF HER DEATH CERTIICATE AND FROM THAT I FOUND THE CAUSE OF DEATH WAS MURDER BY PERSON OR PERSONS UNKNOWN, (SHE WAS 23 YEARS OF AGE). I THEN TRIED TO OBTAIN COPIES OF LOUISA’S INQUEST, THE FUNNY THING WAS AS I WAS TOLD BY BERKSHIRE RECORDS OFFICE MOST INQUEST REPORTS BEFORE 1930 HAD BEEN DESTROYED AND THIS ONE WAS THE ONLY ONE REMAINING. I OBTAINED COPIES, AND ALSO NEWSPAPER REPORTS OF THE TIME, RECORDING THAT THERE HAD BEEN TWO INQUESTS, EVIDENCE FROM THE POLICE AND WITNESS REPORTS, AND WITNESS STATEMENTS. I LATER FOUND THAT SHE HAD 2 CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 4)... WILLIAM, MY FATHER BEING THE YOUNGEST, AND GEORGE HIS BROTHER 2 YEARS OLDER. (I had never heard of George until reading the inquest report.) I FOUND THAT ON THE DAY OF HER DISAPPERENCE SHE HAD TRAVELLED BY TRAIN TO SUNNINGDALE IN BERKSHIRE TO MEET AN AMERICAN WHO WAS STATIONED IN THE UK WITH THE CANADIAN EXPERDITIONARY FORCE. (Louisa’s husband my grandfather was away serving in the war.) AND ON THAT DAY SUNDAY 18TH AUGUST 1918 WHEN SHE FAILED TO RETURN TO HER ROOMS, HIS MOTHER AND HER AUNT WENT TO HER ROOMS AND FOUND A LETTER ADDRESSED “ DEAR LOUIE”, ARRANGING A MEETING AT SUNNINGDALE TRAIN STATION FROM A SERVICEMAN IN THE CANADIAN ARMY NAMED VANCE. HER BODY WAS FOUND FIVE WEEKS LATER BY A FARM LABOURER WHO WAS CUTTING FERN; IT WAS IN A WOOD ON THE CHARTERS ESTATE. THE WOOD WAS ENCLOSED ON THE ROAD SIDE BY A WOODEN FENCE ON THE LAND SIDE IT WAS OPEN, THE BODY COULD NOT BE SEEN FROM THE ROAD, VANCE WAS QUESTIONED BY THE POLICE BUT SAID IN HIS STATEMENT “HE HAD ARRIVED LATE AT THE STATION AND THAT LOUISA WAS NOT THERE SO HE LEFT”. LOUISA WAS FOUND IN A WOODED AREA LESS THAN ONE MILE FROM THE STATION—SHE HAD BEEN GAGGED WITH HER HANDKERCHIEF AND STRANGLED WITH HER OWN MACKINTOSH BELT, HER HANDBAG WAS MISSING. (Valuable items of jewellery were still with the body) THE POSTMORTEM EXAMINATION WAS CARRIED OUT IN THE OUTHOUSE AJOINING THE “NAG’S HEAD” PUBLIC HOUSE (by Robert Donaldson MD) Pathologist at the Royal Berkshire Hospital. VANCE TOLD THE POLICE THAT AS SHE HAD FAILED TO MEET HIM ON THE DATE IN QUESTION AND THAT HE DID NOT TRY TO CORRESPOND OR MAKE ANY OTHER CONTACT WITH HER. A PERSON NAMED EMMA GAGNON A FRIEND OF LOUISA ALSO GAVE EVIDENCE, “SAYING THAT LOUISA HAD VISITED HER HOUSE IN SUNNINGDALE ON PREVIOUS OCCASSIONS AND THE ONLY VISITOR SHE HAD WHILE AT THIS FRIEND’S WAS VANCE. EMMA SAID SHE HAD TOLD LOUISA THAT HER HUSBAND OBJECTED TO THESE MEETINGS AND THAT SHE WAS NOT TO MEET HIM THERE AGAIN. THE POLICE NOTES SAY VANCE WAS A SUSPECT AND THAT THEY HAD MET AT SUNNIGDALE ON PREVIOUS OCCASIONS BUT I EXPECT THAT AS IT WAS SOME FIVE WEEKS BETWEEN THE DATE OF DEATH AND THE BODY BEING FOUND THE POLICE EVIDENCE WAS NOT ABLE TO SHOW VANCE AS COMMITING THE MURDER, AND DNA MATCHING WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME. (Whether it was Vance or a passing stranger who had committed the murder is not known) WITNESSES Body Found by Joseph Chandler farm labourer. Dr.Chas.M. Wildridge Supt. Jannaway. Inspector Simmons. Margaret Lilian Silvester. Vance N******. LESS THAN ONE YEAR LATER IN 1919 VANCE TOOK A YOUNG BERKSHIRE BRIDE WITH HIM TO THE USA, HE DIED THERE IN 1962 Vance N******, spouse Florence P***** March 1919, married at Maidenhead Berks. SO THE MURDERER IS UNKNOWN! BUT WITH THE HELP OF OTHERS I HAVE MANAGED TO TRACE THESE DETAILS OF THE GRANDMOTHER- I NEVER HAD. I HAVE TRIED BUT WAS UNSUCCESFUL IN TRACING WHAT HAPPENED TO HER BODY! I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO KNOW IF OR WHERE SHE HAD BEEN BURIED. RE: THE ELDEST CHILD WHO WAS IN A CONVERLESCENT HOME, (AND WAS NEVER FOUND BY MY DAD) NOTHING FURTHER IS KNOWN. HIS FATHER WENT ON TO REMARRY AND HAVE OTHER CHILDREN. MY MOTHER SAID MY DAD HAD TRIED TO TRACE HIS OLDER BROTHER HE HAD PLACED NEWSPAPER ADVERTS TO FIND HIM. BUT TO NO AVAIL. I DID A TRACE AND FOUND A MAN THE CORRECT NAME WHO HAD BEEN BORN IN SOU

I DID A TRACE AND FOUND A MAN THE CORRECT NAME WHO HAD BEEN BORN IN SOUTHWARK IN 1914 HAD DIED IN TRURO IN 1992. WAS THIS HIM! UPDATE SINCE WRITING THE ABOVE I HAVE FOUND A SITE CALLED FAMILY HISTORY ONLINE AND SAW REGISTERED UNDER DEATHS: LOUISA GATES, HOLY TRINITY, SUNNINGDALE. I CONTACTED THEM AND THEIR REPLY IS BELOW: Dear Carol Many thanks for your messages – what an extraordinary story. I have been to look at our records and we do indeed have something: Louisa Gates aged 23 years of Walworth was buried in the churchyard. It says that there was an inquest. There is a grave space but I am not sure how successful a search would be for a stone there. If you would like to make a visit sometime and come to see the records for yourself and take a look at the churchyard, that would be very possible. Just give me a call. With all good wishes, as ever, David The Vicarage Holy Trinity Sunningdale Ascot SL5 0PD With a slow and noiseless footstep Comes that messenger divine, Takes the vacant chair beside me, Lays her gentle hand in mine. And she sits and gazes at me With those deep and tender eyes, Like the stars, so still and saint-like, Looking downward from the skies. Uttered not, yet comprehended, Is the spirit's voiceless prayer, Soft rebukes, in blessings ended, Breathing from her lips of air. Oh, though oft depressed and lonely, Al l my fears are laid aside, If I but remember only Such as these have lived and died! Henry Wadsworth Longfellow UPDATE Hi carol Albert & Charles Gates are my uncles and also your father’s uncles. Your father is my half-brother and you are my niece. Your grandfather is William Robert gates, brother of Albert and Charlie. I would like to hear from you, my e-mail is……… I received this message to-day from Genes Reunited this is a son Alfred Gates from My Grandfathers second Marriage. 12/10/2005. From Alfred, I believe that when the tragic event of their Mothers death occurred, my father was sent home from France and George and William (Bill) went to live with their Grand parents. This is an assumption, but they never lived with us. After the War Bill came home from the Army and stayed with us for a while but I'm not sure what happened after that. UPDATE I have now received the death certificate for George William Gates, I find he was a retired engineer, his date of death was May 1992, he died at The Royal Cornwall Hospital, Truro and his death was registered by his Grandson Mark Allen who at the time was living in South Street, Redruth. Wouldn’t my dad have been overjoyed to have found him or any of these details about his? missing brother. I am now trying to find Mark Allen as I believe we would be 1st Cousins. Since this all started I have now found relatives in the USA and Family History Of Louisa’s Savage (Gates) ancestors back to 1557 my search still continues………….

nudge

Carol what a great story Cant help much I am afraid I presume you have checked out Mark Allen born 1970 in Truro on this site Marilyn

Would really like to know if George had a wife and daughter, also would like to be able to find Mark Allen, but so far have had no success with either.

nudge for further help

Carol this is a fairly roundabout way to search - but it may bear fruit. If he owned property when he died he may have left a will or his family would have had to apply for probate in order to administer his estate - you should be able to search for copies of these - which could leave clues as to other members of his immediate family if they are named as beneficiaries. If you have an address on the death certificate it is worth writing to them and breifly explaining the tale and asking if they still have any details of the solicitors that dealt with the house when they bought it. if it was sold as part of probate then the solicitors will have details of where/who the money went to. A search of the 1992 electoral role for the address you have for him may shed light on whether he left a widow or if anyone else was living with him at the time. Failing that - have you written to the local newspaper to his address in hope that someone who knew him would be able to provide any other snippets of information abuot his family? Zoe

Hello Carol, bit of a long shot but have you looked on b4usearch website? I have found 1 Mark and 2 M Allen's living in Redruth. Would you like me to PM the info to you? Also I suppose you are looking for a birth of Mark Allen with the mother's maiden name of Gates. Maybe someone could trawl ancestry (I'dont have it). Best of luck, Selena

What an extrodinary and sad story. Have you tried finding a 1992 newspaper for Truro. It might give obituaries with more family details. The local library might have an electoral roll for 1992. Alternatively why not write up the story and send it to the local Truro paper and see if any readers remember George.

What about this birth? 3rd quarter 1964 Mark Allen Penzance Vol ?A (can't read the number) page 97 mother's maiden name Gates Gillian

Good find Gillian!!! Looks like Vol 7a, Page 97.

Found this marriage. Olive E Gates - Michael R Allen - Islington 5c 1695 - 1970 Q3 Any good???????

Thanks to all for help and advice, I will follow up all suggestions with the hope that I can find Mark or details of George's wife or daughter, thanks agin to all who took time to help. Carol x

Please advise best site for me to look to now find Olive Gates. Thanks

nudge for advice where to look for Olive Gates.