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Yes I remember thinking that was a possibility when I was looking at the censuses last year, It looks rather like its certain from the records you found. Hmm I will have to look at my records to check Amelia out again... it's been several months since I was looking at her. Thankyou :o)

Yes you're right, it all gets soo confusing anyway, without all these marriages and children in different marriages! I'm pretty sure I worked it out before and he was married to Sarah when Eliza was pregnant, 2 years after Eliza had Amelia Sarah had Alice then by the next census Henry was living with Eliza. Interesting stuff... I wonder how he managed to work that?!

No I have no idea where the craft children came from or who they are! Henry really is a confusing man. So many different occupations... a member on here who also has him on their tree told me they have his son (Sarah's son) marriage cert which states Henry as a retired farmer. So Eliza is from Chesham then, and not somerset like I had orginally thought? That will probably give me a few new things to try. On a rather seperate note, I cannot find records of my father or indeed his parents anywhere in the BMD index. How would I go about ordering a cert with no GRO reference? Thankyou Lizzy

Elizabeth do you know where the Craft children in 1881 came from? Zoe

Well if those marriages are all his then no wonder he was missing in 1901 as he would have remarried!(again!!) Now if you get his death cert that may give you extra info hopefully the informant will be someone of interest. Zoe

Elizabeth I have checked the beta images on Ancestry and Ozibird is right that there was only 1 Henry Newman Birkley born in the june quarter of 1852, they have obviously entered him twice because it is not clear if his number is 530 or 550. This is Henry's parents marriage ref. Marriages Mar 1845 Birkley John Newman Yeovil 10 873 Cogan Mary Ann Yeovil 10 873 Samways John Yeovil 10 873 Stephens Hannah Yeovil 10 873 Georgina.

Yes Zoe, it is rather confusing what exactly was going on with Henry and his wives! I've been struggling with it for quite some time now! OZ, I can't remember where in the census i got middlesex from, it was quite sometime ago now! Well I am pleased with tonight's work on this - I have added a lot of new names to my tree and found 2 members on here who I will be able to connect to :o) Thank you all for your help, and if anyone has anymore ideas please do let me know and help shed the light on Henry and his ladies!! Goodnight! Lizzy

What gets me according to info Georgina gave he was married to Sarah Harper when he had a child with Eliza is that correct as you said he had a child with Sarah Harper after Eliza's child was born! Marriages Dec 1870 BIRKLEY Henry Newman Kensington 1a 357 Hackett John Kensington 1a 357 Harper Sarah Jane Kensington 1a 357 Murphy Hannah Kensington 1a 357 Marriages Dec 1880 Birkley Henry Newman Amersham 3a 715 BURCHELL Walter Thomas Amersham 3a 715 Priest Esther Amersham 3a 715 Tilbury Eliza Amersham 3a 715

Marriages Dec 1880 Birkley Henry Newman Amersham 3a 715 BURCHELL Walter Thomas Amersham 3a 715 Priest Esther Amersham 3a 715 Tilbury Eliza Amersham 3a 715 Marriages Dec 1892 Berkley Henry Newman St.Saviour 1d 167 HAWKES Louie St. Saviour 1d 167 LEWIS Alice St Saviour 1d 167 Turner William Henry St. Saviour 1d 167 What I don't understand is, according to my information I already had from the census when Henry and Eliza were married, it stated she was born in Somerset!!

Yes.. that's how I saw it too. It would fit the family story about him being a ladies man. I just like the way he has a different occupation in each census! Maybe he was trying to live several different lives ;o)

Yes this is them. Mary ann is the mary ann cogan i have mentioned already... I'm just struggling to make sense of exactly what went on with henrys marriages and if its all him or different people, and if theyre different people (apart from the impressive coincidence) which one is he? :o(

In answer to your question to Helen, Your not daft if you don't know, so always ask :) Ref for George and Pheobe's marriage is: GRO REF, Amersham, Dec 1855, page 3a Vol 505

Oh thank you Carrie! Those guys are easier to understand :o)

on FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1855 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HALSEY Mary Amersham 3a 505 >>>HAWKES George Amersham 3a 505 PRIEST Samuel Amersham 3a 505 >>>RANCE Phebe Amersham 3a 505

OK thankyou Helen... but I am going to sound daft now: is the GRO reference the code at the end of the records shown above?

in reply to previous question, the cheapest way to get a birth cert is online here and it will cost £7 if you quote the GRO reference. If you have more than one cert and are not sure which is yours, you can specify a checking point when you order. If its the wrong cert the GRO keep £3 for checking fees. if its the right cert you get it sent to you. www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ nell

Hmmm I have no idea how I managed to enter the answer to your question after yopu asked it and still get it to appear before you ask... everything to do with this family is determined to confuse me!! my immediate family is bad enough to keep track of as my grand father (25 years older than my grand mother - eric hawkes) adopted my grandmother so she would carry his name when they had children as he could not divorce his ex wife who he already had several children with... So knowing that among everything else I'm at the point where no ridiculous scandal or affair would surprise me

Elizabeth who is your ancestor that you are tracing back from? Georgina.

Amelia Cogan Berkley b.1874 ... There is a member on here who also has Henry Berkley on his tree but his relation is from when he was married to Sarah. But, that Henry Berkley who married Sarah Had the mother Mary Ann Cogan b.1821which would explain Amelia's middle name (this is common in the family as my aunt carries the middle name of Berkeley being the first born from Eric hawkes, Amelia's son) There is a family rumour that my grandads grandad Berkley was a bit of a ladies man and had several wives... theres some silly story about him losing the family fortune (before I started the research I was told that he had lived in Hundridge Manor in Chesham! I since find this isn't true - although I have been unable to find the manor's records and my grandfather swore he grew up in the manor keep house when his grandad lived in the manor...) - these stories always get exaggerated but I would believe that it would come from somewhere - and having 3 different wives could be that something...

What is strange with 3 Henry Newman Birkley's births in 1851 I can only see 1 on the 1861 census... Amelia Berkley abt 1856 Yeovil, Somerset, England Daughter Yeovil Somerset Henry Berkley abt 1851 Yeovil, Somerset, England Son Yeovil Somerset John Berkley abt 1850 Staplegrove, Somerset, England Son Yeovil Somerset John N Berkley abt 1823 Yeovil, Somerset, England Head Yeovil Somerset Mary Ann Berkley abt 1821 Staplegrove, Somerset, England Wife Yeovil Somerset Mary J Berkley abt 1847 Yeovil, Somerset, England Daughter Yeovil Somerset William Berkley abt 1848 Yeovil, Somerset, England Son Yeovil Somerset Mary Burnet abt 1835 Staplegrove, Somerset, England Servant Yeovil Somerset Mary Garland abt 1781 Yeovil, Somerset, England Boarder Yeovil Somerset Georgina.