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Lady Liberty, Thank you, can definitely scratch him off my list! I phoned my Mum this evening about the information you found on the census. She's excited too! It's given us something to go on now so we're no longer stuck :) You have made our day thank you. And thank you to everyone else who has helped with this :) You're all brilliant and deserve a big drink!

Just realised you asked for info on Joseph Baxter born Leigh: 1861: He is a carter! View Record Elizabeth Rachel Barter abt 1852 Astley, Lancashire, England Stepdaughter Tyldesley Lancashire View Record George Baxter abt 1849 Astley, Lancashire, England Stepson Tyldesley Lancashire >>>View Record Joseph Baxter abt 1848 Astley, Lancashire, England Stepson Tyldesley Lancashire View Record Charles Johnson abt 1829 Astley, Lancashire, England Head Tyldesley Lancashire View Record Margret Johnson abt 1819 Worsley, Lancashire, England Head Tyldesley Lancashire RG9/2806 Registration district: Leigh Sub-registration district: Atherton ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Folio: 25 Page: 45 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 223 GSU Number: 543031 *************************************************** Sorry i think this is the one you meant, same family as above! 1851: Margaret, John and Mary are hand loom weavers (silk) View Record Ann Baxter abt 1781 Culcheth, Lancashire, England Head Bedford Lancashire View Record John Baxter abt 1822 Leigh, Lancashire, England Son Bedford Lancashire View Record Joseph Baxter abt 1846 Leigh, Lancashire, England Grandson Bedford Lancashire View Record Margret Baxter abt 1817 Leigh, Lancashire, England Daughter Bedford Lancashire View Record Mary Ann Baxter abt 1834 Leigh, Lancashire, England Daughter Bedford Lancashire HO107/2204 Registration district: Leigh Sub-registration district: Lowton ED, institution, or vessel: 3h Folio: 458 Page: 13 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 43 GSU Number: 87214 Lib:))

Lady Liberty - My apologies, I misread it as 1851 census! Thank you for all your help I think we probably do have the right family!

Yes James is still at home with parents in 1861 (see 1861 census ive already posted on page one)

Lady Liberty - Do you know if James was still living with the Joseph Smith in Astley in 1861?

Yes could be his brother James born c1846 (on 1851/61 census)

The witnesses were James Smith and John Brausby. Never really thought about chasing the witnesses before. I probably did just assume James was Jeremiah's brother and never went back to it. Good thinking!

As a matter of interest, who were the witnesses on Jeremiah's marriage cert??

Thank you Lady Liberty. I'll add all of that to my records.

This could be one of the Jeremiah's in 1861: He is a ag lab! View Record Jeremiah Smith abt 1835 Astley, Lancashire, England Head Tyldesley Lancashire View Record Rachel Smith abt 1836 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Tyldesley Lancashire View Record Thomas Smith abt 1861 Manchester, Lancashire, England Son Tyldesley Lancashire RG9/2806 Registration district: Leigh Sub-registration district: Atherton ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Folio: 62 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 15 GSU Number: 543031 I can't find another with same place of birth/year

Here are the Birth refs: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1838 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smith Jeremiah Leigh 21 482 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1840 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smith Jeremiah Leigh 21 533

Sue - Lady Liberty did point out that one of them, their father Joseph switches from being a silk weaver to a coal miner between 1851 and 1861. He also has a brother James which might explain where my great-great grandfather's name came from. I am still intrigued by the Joseph Baxter b 1846 in Leigh, Lancashire thats a grandson. I haven't seen the household, but I would like to, just to rule him out.

And i have just realised... to confuse matters.... two Jeremiah Smith's were born in Astley.... only 2 years apart..... sooooo which is which ... we have them both on the 51... which is which on the 61..... i think my brains are getting scrambled ! lol, Sue xxx

Is there anything else I can post that would help people at all? Please let me know and I'll see if I have that information!

Sue - Oh yes the Jenkinsons are just as wacky! Jemima and Frank and Mary's children before she marries Jeremiah/Joseph. On her marriage certificate she says Francis Fitton is her father, presumably the same one Jeremiah/Joseph is lodging with in 1861? The family Mary are with in 1861 is her maternal grandmother and her second husband. I found her second marriage and Ann's first marriage was to a Jenkinson, which explains the grand daughter link! I think Sarah (Francis Fitton's wife in 1861) is Mary's mother and Ann's daughter. Am still looking for a marriage for Sarah and Francis and a bith certificate for Mary to prove an awful lot of this though!

Jemima was down as Jenkinson on the bmd..... stranger and stranger..... but was down as fitton on the census.....

Lady Liberty - Thats very true. I'm just confused as to why he uses two different names! I thought perhaps he might have been illegitimate or something. Now I'm wondering if he had a criminal past!

In 1861 Joseph Smith occupation is Collier (miner) in 1851 he is a Silk weaver, the change of occupation suggest this Joseph is Jeremiah's father (occupation for Joseph ( is stated as Miner on Jeremiah's marriage cert) in 1865! So your Jeremiah is looking like he is son of Joseph and Mary in 1851 census above!

1891 census 23 Charles Street, Worsboro Joseph Baxter Head 52 Coal Miner Lancs, Ashley Mary Baxter Wife 48 Worsboro Joseph Baxter Son 25 Coal Miner Worsboro Henry Baxter Son 21 Coal Miner Worsboro Sarah Ann Baxter Dau 15 Elizabeth Baxter Dau 10 Walter Baxter Son 7 Mary Ellen Dau 3 Israel Gibson Boarder 23 Coal Miner Hoyland 1901 census RG13 4323 93 26 23 Charles Street, Worsborough Bridge, Yorks Joseph Baxter Head M 62 LANCS Nk Coalminer Hewer Belowground Mary Baxter Wife M 58 Yorks,Worsborough Joseph Baxter Son S 35 ' Coalminer Trammer Belowground Walter Baxter Son S 16 ' Pony Driver Colliery Below ground Mary Ellen Baxter Dau S 13 ' Arthur Baxter Gson 3 '

Lady Liberty - Those census returns from 1851 do look good! The question is which one is he? Someone did mention a Joseph Baxter b 1846 in Leigh and that he was a grandson. Would it be possible to get the information on that one too? I'm trying to work out why on earth he uses two names!