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Hi Nell, The address is 5 Wellington Place.

Fiona I think you've done it - jump for joy! I went back to the original tree drawn up in the 1980s. There is no Emily - I expect she has married a Mr Smith, lol! BUT -here is a real clincher - Richard is listed as blind and on the original 1861 census I checked he is listed blind and deaf. I am of course very sorry for him, but frabjous day, his misfortune makes me sure you've found the right family. I can't see how anyone could mistake Carter for McCarthy, so I am now wondering - did they change their name, maybe to avoid Irish connections? Or did the original bloke scrawl so badly that when the enumerator filled in the final form he put McCarthy instead of Carter? nell

Nell, That is great!!!! I think the blind Richard would be one coinsidence too many! If you should find out they changed their name drop me a line I would be very interested in knowing, think I'll have to try the change of name for a few of my lot!!! Fiona. x

Hi Nell, Richard was missing in 1871. There is a Richard McCarthy in a Blind school in 1871???? Maybe they didn't all change their names. Might have already registered Richard in the school before they changed their, then changed Richards as well when he went back home by 1881? Could be why they moved to St Georges? Name: Richard Mccarthy Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Pupil Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Blkfrars Rd, Surrey, England Civil Parish or Township: St George Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude County/Island: London Country: England Street address: View Image Condition as to marriage: View Image Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Occupation: View Image Source information: RG10/606 Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: London Road ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Folio: 25 Page: 44 (click to see others on page

Hallo again folks. This is *****y wierd. As far as I can tell, James and Elizabeth were both born in either Holborn or Clerkenwell or somewhere nearby. I am not aware of any Irish connection. But Richard seems to have clung to his McCarthy name - if indeed it is right and its him. Very peculiar. Not sure how to go on this one. I am sure its hard enough finding the right Charles Carter without looking for charles McCarthy too! I was convinced when I saw Fiona's initial posting that McCarthy must be a misreading of Carter, but it isn't. Trying to get my head round it - husband already has Welsh and Jewish ancestors, now if there are Irish as well, we are sunk as I know how hard tracing Irish families is!!! nell

Definately a gold star award there! (someone loosen Nell's straight jacket, she's calming down now, she'll be okay in a while....) jess x

Sorry Nell!!!! Seem to have made things worse not better! Please keep smileing!!

Well I don't know about that Jess. Yes I was very excited and now I am thinking about how much more complicated all this is. I wonder if they were McCarthy and changed their name to avoid debt-collectors or something? It's true that they lived in Southwark at various times and then decamped to Bow and came back. Very confusing. I don't know where the blighters were in 1901 either - I've got charles and his missus Ok, living in Newington, but Charles' parents might now be McCarthy, or Carter, or dead registered under either name. I can see why cousin Eileen, having speculated about a few Carter ancestors for James said 'these might be all the wrong families'. Well if they were McCarthys, she was right! aaarrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhh again. nell

Well Nell, Looks like the answer might be in 1851! If 1861 is right they should have Emily and William with them and be in either St. Andrews or Clerkenwell. With either the name McCarthy or Carter. Fiona. x

Or possibly Bloggs!!!!! It's OK, nurse is bringing my medication. Thanks for all your help. nell

Sarah I will order the cert with a checking point. Fingers crossed! nell

Husband has just come home - dashed off to meeting, but while he was wolfing down some food I told him about this. 'Oh' he said 'My mother did say that there were Irish connections - and Scottish too, I think' Triple aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhh!

Now he desides to tell you!!!! Men!! You could see if they are in 1851 under McCarthy while you wait to find out about Charles' birth certificate. Good Luck!!! Fiona. x

Cheers Fiona. Now I come to think of it, Charles Carter had red hair, which his granddaughter (my m-i-l) inherited and my own son has a reddish tinge to his. Husband says this is the Irish streak!! nell

OH NO!!!! I have red hair too!!!!!!!

Not that this helps the situ .... but when Sue found my Shawcross's as Scott's, I checked the pages surrounding them ... JUST incase the enumerator had got the names muddled whilst transferring the details to the register ? It wasn't the case ... but worth seeing if there are any Carters listed nearby on the census ... maybe he HAD had a few to many and wrote them down wrong way round ? Just a thought ! Even now, whilst I'm transferring info onto FT .. I sometimes add the wrong surname ... so it is easy done (if your thick !! as in my case !) Dancer x